 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Llewsrac
Date: 2006-04-30 03:33
Does anyone know of a published collection of cadenza's, written and performed, by noted Clarinettist through the ages of and for the Mozart Clarinet concerto?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2006-04-30 06:23
Since there are no original cadenzas by Morzart himself or it was originally for Stadler's basset clarinet , present famous clarinetists improvise their own candenza's. I would like to know if there is any score for Cadenzas recorded recently by Charles Neidich.
http://www.tishkoff.com/articles/mozart.htm
I have a thought on the reason why Mozart's own manuscript does not exist for this composition. As his piano concerto No.23 in A major K488 is considered to be one of his secret Masonic musical compositions, the number three(3 #'s) is a secret number to Masons. I think he may have considered this clarinet concerto is another Masonic music to him. This is also in A major. (Looking at the piano score it includes three #'s.)
Post Edited (2006-04-30 06:27)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-04-30 11:14
They are often included in whichever edition you are using, also I think Ibert wrote some rather out there ones...not terribly rooted in the classical style. I would assume that Charles Neidich doesn't write the stuff down that he does, I think it's probably only available in his head and via transcription from a recording. I believe that Hiroshi is correct about the influence of the Masons in the clarinet concerto. There are many uses of the number three in the concerto. Besides the key signature, consider the falling third which comprises the opening theme of the first movement, and there are a few more fairly obvious ones. Also Colin Lawson's book the Mozart Clarinet Concerto discusses associations with Masonry, not only of the concerto, but other works as well.
Crhristopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-04-30 12:31
And have you noticed that the first three notes of K488 and the clarinet concerto are the same? Hmm...3's everywhere!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Susan
Date: 2006-04-30 14:05
Actually, there are no cadenzas in the Mozart Clarinet Concerto. There are eingange, which are not quite the same thing. Does Dan Leeson post on the bulletin board? He can explain this far better than I can. Search the Klarinet list archives - there have been all kinds of discussion about this in the past.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-04-30 15:54
Timely topic.
I'm preparing to ask my teacher about cadenzas at tomorrow's lesson. I have two concertos with inadequate cadenzas provided in the music: Crusell #2, and another by Roessler. In both cases, I have a recording that makes much more of the cadenzas than is provided.
So, what is a student of the clarinet to do? In the Roessler, an OK cadenza is provided that was written by the guy who did the piano reduction. It fiddles with the chord structure and key themes of the piece --but doesn't get around to the other (in the slow movement). In the Crusell, the written stuff is a bare introduction to what the performer actually does.
My own attempts to produce a flashy, appropriate, fitting ad libitum sound feeble relative to those of good performers.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-04-30 16:09
You might want to read 3 early (1981/1982) issues of The Clarinet magazine:
Volume 8 Number 4
Volume 9 Number 1
Volume 9 Number 2
Each issue has an article, showing the different written and published cadenzas for the Mozart Concerto as conceived by Busoni, Ibert and Kritcka ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-04-30 16:12
crnichols wrote:
>> There are many uses of the number three in the concerto. Besides the key signature, consider the falling third which comprises the opening theme of the first movement, and there are a few more fairly obvious ones.>>
When this was first suggested to me, over a decade ago, I found it striking for myself, but also very useful as a teaching device. Anything that gets the student to look at what is there pays dividends. For example, not many people consider the second bar of the clarinet part to be a decoration of the falling third of the first bar. See 'My Cass Article', in:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2003/10/000226.txt
An example of 'threes' not always available to the student is 'the three registers of the basset clarinet'; and that particular consideration provides possibly the most striking and controversial example of 'threes': namely, that the third of the descending sequence of passages beginning at bar 331 -- the one in the 'basset' register -- occurs at bar 333!
It's not so outrageous; the Winterthur manuscript shows that Mozart wrote in the bar numbers as he went, so he could have taken advantage of a coincidence.
By the way, I see that GBK wrote somewhere that there had been theses written on this subject. I didn't know that, and would be very interested to know by whom.
Tony
Post Edited (2006-04-30 16:18)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-04-30 16:19
Tony Pay wrote:
> By the way, I see that GBK wrote somewhere
> that there had been theses written on this subject.
> I didn't know that, and would be very interested to
> know by whom.
The article in The Clarinet magazine discussing the different cadenzas by Ibert, Busoni and Kritcka was written by Colin Lawson ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-04-30 16:53
GBK wrote:
>> Tony...The articles were written by Colin Lawson ...GBK>>
But there's nothing on the 'threes' connection in his book. Do you have access to other material?
Obviously, it's not very surprising that a classical work contains thirds and three-note repetitions. The question is, does K622 contain a greater proportion of that than other works by Mozart? Of course, I think I can see an obsession with 3 in the piece. I might be deluding myself, but it doesn't really matter -- even a mistaken stance may be useful.
I thought you were saying that someone had gone beyond that.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-04-30 20:25
After revisiting my copy of the Lawson book, that's true, he doesn't discuss the threes and Masonry. The first time this possibility was first pointed out to me was at a 4 day series of master classes I attended here in Bamberg with Alan Hacker (Tony, I think he's a colleague of yours). One of the other persons attending was a professional Dutch clarinetist and Alan had him play the entire piece. After each movement Alan presented his ideas and almost all of them found incredibly original, I'd never heard it performed or discussed in that manner. The concept of the association with Masonry was fairly new to me, so I just had to examine it...and I had to say a few other obvious ones in my earlier post because I hoped that others would also find this interesting, and get out their scores and go wild finding all the possibilities. Maybe I'm a geek or something, but I had a great time doing this. After playing and studying the piece for 8 or 9 years, a new way of thinking about it is incredibly exciting to me.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-05-01 06:59
Actually, my favorite cadenza (if I just don't play a few notes a la Marcellus, which I usually do) is the one published by Rubank in their concert and contest selection....it's not overbearing but has a little flash to it.
-Randy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
