 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-04-17 23:25
I dropped my Yamha YCL-450 clarinet off today at Brook Mays to have a crack fixed in the upper joint. It's a long one about 3" but did not go through any tone holes as it is about 90° from the tone holes. The tech said he will install 2 pins and fill it. My concern is how will all this effect the tone?
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-04-17 23:43
YCl-450,
I had a similar type of crack in my first Buffet R13 B flat and it did not do anything to the sound of the clarinet. I did notice that not longer after the crack was pinned, the instrument played much sharper across the board. I have no idea if the pin had anything to do with it? I'm sure people on here will have more to say on this topic but for me, sound was not affected.
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Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-04-18 00:28
bufclar wrote:
> YCl-450,
> I had a similar type of crack in my first Buffet R13 B flat and
> it did not do anything to the sound of the clarinet. I did
> notice that not longer after the crack was pinned, the
> instrument played much sharper across the board. I have no idea
> if the pin had anything to do with it? I'm sure people on here
> will have more to say on this topic but for me, sound was not
> affected.
Wow! Did the crack go all the way through?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2006-04-18 00:53
In my limited experience with cracks, I haven't found a crack to be the cause of "bad tone". I can't say whether it affected the tone or not as I've only purchased horns that have already been pinned (and therefore not known what their tone was BEFORE being pinned). However the horns that I had that were pinned, sounded phenominal.
I have also had a crack filled (not pinned), and that didn't affect the tone at all.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-04-18 01:25
YCl,
the crack did not go all the way through but it did play on the high side for some reason. The instrument sounded great and it got me through undergrad. I guess it's possible that I was the one making it sharp but it deffinetly had some intonation issues. Most likely it was me and not the instrument.
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Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-04-18 11:52
Sean.Perrin wrote:
> Didn't you just get this horn? Is it under warranty, cause that
> really is terrible!
It's an ebay purchase so the warrenty is not transferable.
>
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-04-18 12:42
if a competent tech fixes it, it should not affect tone, in most cases. i have several horns with repaired cracks, they sound fine.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2006-04-18 12:43)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-04-18 15:16
My old Centered Tone Bb (N69xx) cracked through the top two trill toneholes and right through to the bore between them, it's still airtight and perfectly playable, and has shown no signs of moving or opening up since it was filled, pinned and toneholes bushed (back in 1988).
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Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-04-18 17:41
Chris P wrote:
> My old Centered Tone Bb (N69xx) cracked through the top two
> trill toneholes and right through to the bore between them,
> it's still airtight and perfectly playable, and has shown no
> signs of moving or opening up since it was filled, pinned and
> toneholes bushed (back in 1988).
I guess I was kind of lucky that the crack didn't go through the tone holes.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-04-18 20:22
As to bufclar's question about the repaired crack changing the overall pitch of the instrument, that would be highly unusual, but I suppose it is possible. It would warrant taking it to a qualified technician to see what he/she thinks about that. However, I would more think that something else has changed in your setup. Perhaps your embouchure has changed, or perhaps you're using a different mouthpiece or tuning barrel or even reed strength. Or, possibly you're playing in a different temperature environment than you were before. Many things can affect your tuning.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-04-18 21:21
"I guess I was kind of lucky that the crack didn't go through the tone holes."
It can be less hassle if it doesn't go through toneholes in one way (in that there's no need for tonehole bushing), but it's better in most ways if the crack does enter a tonehole as it usually stops and won't spread any further, but that depends on the grain - a Buffet R13 I recently pinned and bushed had twisty grain and it went to the edge of one tonehole then onto the next (again going through the edge of the tonehole) and terminated at the deep threaded hole for the trill guide.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2006-04-19 12:11
There has been two cracks in the upper joint of my buffet for 3 years but the tone and intonation is as good as I am playing on any given day. I am under the impression that pinning may possibly make it sharper or change somewhat. The crack doesnt go thru to the bore or any tone holes and hasnt progressed for over a year. My tech advised me to just keep an eye on it. I have no idea what will happen to the tone after pinning but know I will eventually have to.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-04-19 14:49
bufclar, my apologies. I did not intend to be patronizing. And, I'm not a repair expert--just a player wondering about your perplexing problem. I would have gotten another instrument as well if the problems weren't in the simple category. Sometimes it's just the instrument no matter what we do. It's best to part company at that time.
But, sometimes our postings help others more than the original questioner--that's my motivation for some comments because I know many read and learn from our problems. Perhaps my comments helped someone who wasn't as knowledgeable as yourself.
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Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-04-20 00:52
I have a Bass with a flushbanded crack. I didn't own the instrument prior to or immediately after the crack, but I don't feel the instrument is IMPEDED. However, I'm not sure if the horn changed after the crack.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-04-20 07:41
I avoid buying anything that's been flush banded like the plague - it's not a pretty sight seeing this kind of repair work and it can also constrict the bore as well.
I remember working on an old Moennig (Los Angeles) bass clarinet and the top joint was flush banded with three bands, but the bore was waisted where the flush bands were, and about 1mm narrower than the rest of the bore at these points - probably not all that detrimental to this bass clarinet as it was a mess, but this kind of constriction would probably have more significant effect if it was on a Bb clarinet or oboe.
And this was a strange bass clarinet - although it only descended to low Eb, the low Eb tonehole was on the bottom joint with a huge forward facing wooden bush, but if there was a key fitted to cover this it could have a low D that issued from the bell - and the bell 'U' tube was elliptical in section. Not to mention the throat Bb/double register key mechanism was mega unreliable and a pig to use, and the upper vent was through the socket and a corresponding hole was drilled through the crook to line up with it - as long as the top ring fitted with a projecting guide didn't move it all lined up.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-04-20 11:30
Chris wrote:
"...it's better in most ways if the crack does enter a tone hole as it usually stops and won't spread any further, but that depends on the grain....
Although this is correct in theory, for most materials, I have my doubts whether it applies too much to timber, on account of its grain structure.
If it were true, then we would seldom see any crack go past a tone hole. In my experience, however, it is very common for a crack to extend past both sides of a tone hole, even when the grain is straight.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-04-20 13:24
My oboe teacher mentioned a repairer she knows puts a saw cut at (or just past) the end of a crack to stop it spreading any further down a joint - there's enough wood to do this with considering how thick the body walls are, and filling it should be easy enough, but I'd prefer to drill a blind hole (2.5-3mm diameter) at the base of a crack that's spreading down a joint and not terminating at a tonehole in view to stopping it spreading further, and filling this is much easier still.
It worked on my Series 9 Bb where the bottom joint has cracked down the back, and terminates at a hole I drilled into the body which is conveniently hidden under the thumbrest base.
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Author: dzirkle2
Date: 2006-05-08 17:16
I have been reading the BB track on clarinets that develop cracks. I bought my daughter a new Buffet Prestige R13 b-flat clarinet in Jan 2005. It nnow has a crack in the upper joint 3"- 4" long next to the register key. The crack appears to be through the joint down to the cork. I don't know if it is through to the bore. I sent it back to the vendor I bought it from. Is this something that occurs frequently with Buffets? I have a friend whose daughter's Buffet developed 2 cracks and in the BB track I mention of others. I have a Selmer Series 9 that is about 40 years old and does not have a crack in it. What is meant by "pinning"? Flush banded?
From what I have been reading, these clarimets seem to play ok without ill effects even with cracks. Is that indeed correct?
Thanks for any suggestions!!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-05-08 18:45
I've played/owned quite a few clarinets (soprano, alto and bass) along with a couple of oboes, having repaired cracks. In my experience a properly-repaired crack does not impair the playing of an instrument at all.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-05-08 20:49
Chris P,
I got a laugh reading your post about the old Moennig Brothers (Los Angeles) bass clarinet -- unless they made more than one of those, I once owned (about 5-6 years ago) that EXACT instrument (or one identical to it). I thought at the time it was some weird prototype. It was by far the worst-playing bass clarinet I have EVER played. I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to fix/mitigate/compensate for its flaws, and had no success. Beautiful to look at with the silver-plated neck and bell, but an absolute DOG of an instrument. I couldn't believe any self-respecting instrument manufacturer would have allowed such an instrument to leave the shop -- that one should have been stripped of salvageable parts, and scrapped.
Sorry for the digression. Back to cracks.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-05-08 23:33
I'm glad someone else has experienced these basses - I thought at the time it was maybe an East German Moennig bass made for the American market having a German body (to low D) but fitted with Boehm system keywork only descending to low Eb as that's the usual thing on mid-priced basses.
I hadn't heard of the US Moennig of Buffet-tinkering fame back then.
This bass would go out of adjustment just by looking at it, and I'm certainly no Uri Geller - the keys were way too soft by half.
A local school bought it which was a bad mistake - bass clarinets and schools don't mix at the best of times, and this bass couldn't fight back. They would have been better off with a plastic Vito or similar - at least the keywork would have been much sturdier and the plastic body wouldn't split as the chances of it being put back in it's case still damp from playing is normally high.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-05-08 23:34
*****"My concern is how a repaired crack effect the tone?"*****
Repaired crack might have some effect on intonation but it has no effect on tone at all.
Technicians use different technique to repair a crack. I personally do not use any bands or pins to repair a crack even if a crack goes through entire length of the joint. I've successfully repaired many vintage barrels that were split in half without a single pin or band.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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