 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2000-05-01 21:07
It seems that we have not had a good general gripe session in the last few weeks so here goes -- of the generally available "stuff" out there on the rack -- what products (e.g. bore oil, cork grease, reeds, barrels, mouthpieces, etc. do you really like - hate - tolerate ... and WHY??
What would you like to see (oiling instructions, natural products, reed evaluations ("bright, dark" - consisency, etc.) ... and WHY?? Look into your crystal ball and find new things that would help you be a better player or stewart of a beautiful instrument - or maintain the clunker(besides more practice which we all need!) ... and WHY?
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-05-01 22:00
One of my pet gripes is that most new clarinets seem to come with chintzy cases. My 1958 Conn hard case is well built, with a space for an extra barrel, along with two generous wells for parts and supplies, one down the side of the case and one all the way across the front. There's plenty of room for cork grease, swab, reeds, extra mouthpiece, tool kit and all the other doodads. The case also has a music flap in the lid, big enough for most sheet music (although it's possible to overstuff this flap and put pressure on the clarinet, which would be a bad thing). That was the stock case that came with the clarinet. It's still possible to buy good, roomy cases separately, but they're too expensive, IMHO. I've taken cases apart to re-line them. The construction just isn't that complex to justify the prices. I'd like to see more competition in this area.
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Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-01 22:17
One of the clarinet reed cases is terrible! You know the reeds that come in Mitchell Lurie cases? Those are the ones I'm talking about. You put your reed in that case and what do you know, the next day your reed is warped! :( This happened to one of my sax reeds. I'm learning how to play the sax in school and bought Rico Reeds. The reeds are in clarinet reed cases. Now how do you explain putting an alto sax reed in a clarinet reed case? One of the reeds warped on me. To not risk damage, I put the other reed I had in a Vandoren reed case.
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Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-01 22:59
My biggest gripe os that the Mps that come with clarinets are sh--!!!! I know we have like $200 Mps but I would like to know what the manufacturers think is the best set up for thier instruments. I hate having to look for the right Mp, ligature etc for every new clarinet/sax I try or buy.
Graham
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-01 23:05
Kim wrote:
-------------------------------
One of the clarinet reed cases is terrible! You know the reeds that come in Mitchell Lurie cases
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Kim,
Those little plastic cases are for transport, not for storage after use.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-01 23:09
gRAHAM wrote:
-------------------------------
My biggest gripe os that the Mps that come with clarinets are sh--!!!! I know we have like $200 Mps but I would like to know what the manufacturers think is the best set up for thier instruments. I hate having to look for the right Mp, ligature etc for every new clarinet/sax I try or buy.
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I'd rather they not ship _any_ mouthpiece with the clarinet - why pay for something that has a good possibility of being worthless to me?
As to manufacturers knowing what setup to use with their clarinets - balderdash! There is no "recommended setup" and if there were it might be reasonable for a few percent of the people.
Cut the 20 bucks or whatever it costs from the price of a clarinet - or at least give me the option to save the money.
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Author: LJClarinetGuy
Date: 2000-05-01 23:56
Umm well I guess I'll start with my fave products...
I must commend Buffet for their excellent products, I love my 7mo old R13 Also, as to reeds, I like Zonda and Vandoren... Although if I were considering them straight out of the box, Zondas are my choice, the V's sometimes take a while to fix or work in... I also wanna thank C.R. Scott for the great mpcs and barrels he makes, mine have really improved my sound all around and I plan to order another one just before graduation so I can get it in June... I also like those thin teeth/mpc saving sticky cushions as well as the thick spongy thumb rests. And cheers to the reed clipper makers as well as the companies who make reed knives, they help make unusable reeds a thing of the past.
Now for my dislikes, I don't like those Flavored Reeds, I mean they taste good for a while but the flavor is annoying after a while, I've tried a few synthetic reeds but I didn't like them either and I must say I despise the Ricos, they never seem to work well for me or anyone else at my school unless they're playing sax, bass clarinet, or alto clarinet...
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-05-02 03:37
I agree with little cases. My student horn has a bigger case than my new professional one. Don't get me wrong, it's a very pretty case, with the case cover and everything, but it doesn't have the in case storage room. It does have a nifty pocket on the case cover that's really handy.
I also agree on the mouthpieces, now I have another mouthpiece floating around for no reason. I'm keeping it just in case, but I'll probably never need it.
And on reeds, I won't even get started. What brand of reeds you use is a personal choice, and a very touchy subject.
Another useless post from,
Kontragirl
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Author: Karel Vahala
Date: 2000-05-02 10:37
I am impressed with Greg Smith's mouthpiece and the service associated with it. I have had separate feedback from Greg about reeds; he favours Van Doren V12, which I did not much like. His recommendation made me try Grand Concert Thick reeds; I really like those. Thank you Greg.
Karel
(without too many hates so far)
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Author: Drew
Date: 2000-05-02 15:18
Good (and underappreciated products):
Robert Vinson "Equatone" ligatures (inexpensive, durable, lets the reeb vibrate for great sound, gentle on your mouthpiece)
Gem or Jewel silk swabs (NEVER get stuck)
Vandoren mouthpiece patches (neat)
Vandoren reed cases (the blue plastic ones)
K&M folding clarinet stands (don't fit in the bell, but very effective and portable, also work with Eb sopranos)
Adjustable thumbrests (most fixed thumbrests are mounted way too low on the instrument, for correct ergonomics your right thumb should be directly opposite your right index finger. Invest in an adjustable thumbrest or get your fixed thumbrest moved to allow for correct ergonomics).
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Author: SeAn
Date: 2000-05-02 16:03
how about some products that aren't meant for the clarinet and yet suitable for using with the clarinet.?
here's some of what I use. (would like to hear some of yours)
Electrical wire insulating tape for mouthpiece patch:
stick a few layers and you have a mp patch. much cheaper than those commercial patches. more resistance to bite-thru than commercial patch. comes in various colour too :P
Rubber hose washer for tunning rings:
I have found some rubber washer that fit exactly into the barrel(both internal and external diameter) comes in a few thickness.
Cut-off pieces from rubber hose /pen/pencil cushion grip
for thumbrest cushion
Parring/fruit knife as reed knife: I like the comfy handle for grip.
Denture pad+ electrical wire insu tape composite for teeth cushion: the soft denture pad is for comfort, while the tape prevents sharp teeth from biting through the soft denture pad.
small unused camera-film containers containing water to wet reed before playing.
saxophone palm key risers on bass clarinet keys: I put a couple of these risers on keys that require pinky and a little stretching eg. B/E key, Low Eb key
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Author: larry
Date: 2000-05-02 19:35
Drew: I disagree about the blue Vandoren reed guards/cases. I think they're wasteful, excessive packaging. I really miss those small, paper, sliding, bifurcated boxes with the the ten reeds in two neat piles of five. I also miss that little piece of foam that came in the box and how quickly it turned yellow.
SeAn: I would add to your list Bambu rolling paper for drying pads and other purposes.
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Author: paul
Date: 2000-05-02 19:39
Praises first.
I really like my Borbeck pro grade Model 13 mp. Sweet and rich sound, like nothing I've heard before. From chalemeau to altissimo, it's all great. With a Vandoren V-12 2.5 reed, it makes a good horn sound like a world class horn, even with an adult novice like me. Kudos to Mr. Borbeck for a truly superior product.
IMHO, the Legere reed is a great leap forward in artificial reeds. Plus, the warranty is fantastic. I wish all products I bought had this kind of great support. Plenty of praises to Mr. Legere, too.
Gripes second.
I have the usual heavy aluminum music stand that many a student knows. You know, the Manhasset "heavy as a tank" music stand that every school uses. I also have one of those cheap thin legged fold up type of stands for occassional field work. Here's the problem. Why can't we get our sheets of music (consisting of lots of varying sizes of paper) to stay in place on the stand? I use a huge clamp type paper clip for my music drill books to pin down the pages on the Manhasset stand. Works like a champ. The same kind of setup is difficult to manage on the field stand. A music lyre in marching band would be even tougher to manage. Been there, done that decades ago.
If folks can make all kinds of electronic gizmos nowadays, why can't we get an electronic music presentation gadget? It could then be a standard size, let the player follow at his/her own pace, and eliminates the need to clip and unclip paper music across several pages in the wind. Ditto for a very light and small music lyre mounted gadget for marching band.
We have the technology for this, but do you think the market is there for it? What about downloading music and copyrights? Music expression markings, timing, key signatures, read ahead, and a lot of other technical music related problems come to mind. Do you think a gadget like this is realistic, viable, etc.? Any ideas, suggestions, flames?
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Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-02 23:05
SeAn I use many of the things you use. I also use electrical tape as tuning cork. If you put a piece below a key that is sharp it comes down in pitch.
Also electrical tape makes a quick replacement cork if you are out of town.
I also like hot glue to glue pads.
I have used a shoe string in the past as a ligature and it worked really good.
We have to praise the cue tips. They are great for cleaning.
I also have good luck with those home made reed holders. You know the ones with card stock and paper folded onver and stapled.
Vandoren reed casses work great as sheet music holders.
pottery tools work good for spring ajustments.
fat rubber tubing also makes a good ligature.
GRaham
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-02 23:26
larry wrote:
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SeAn: I would add to your list Bambu rolling paper for drying pads and other purposes.
--------
I only use the Big Bambu
From Mark, who really used the paper from the Cheech & Chong album ... in a different lifetime
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-02 23:30
paul wrote:
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If folks can make all kinds of electronic gizmos nowadays, why can't we get an electronic music presentation gadget?
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They already exist - I've see a couple of (very well-paid) big bands using them - thin-screen monitors hooked to a computer. The bandleader pushes a button and - voila' - the music shows up on all the band members' instrument stands simulaneously. Page turns are at a push of a foot switch.
Arrangements have to be made with each publisher for this, and I'll bet the license ain't cheap, since the music will never wear out - or perhaps it's rented, with a pay per play kind of thing.
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Author: SeAn
Date: 2000-05-03 02:23
"Hmm are those the plain rubber circles??? If so, and I'm assuming they are because of the comment on the thickness, they also can make a great ligature... I used to have some that would fit just nicely over my mouthpiece, with one on the bottom line marking normally on many mpcs and the other just at or barely below the top line marking. They can help produce a good nice sound compared to many of the standard metal ligatures that pinch the reed or suffocate it."
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Thats cool!! Ligature from "outer space"
throw in the Accubore "fin" barrel and you'll have a extraterrestial setup. :P
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-05-03 03:01
A bit of confusion, flat washers [hose and fiber] can be used as tuning rings, but not ligs. There is a patent on a pair of "O" [circular crossection] rings, I have one, doesn't work real well. Don
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Author: Paul Lester
Date: 2000-05-03 13:30
A pat on the back for Legere reeds. I've been using them for over 2 months now. They've allowed me to spend more time playing and less time preparing reeds.
And now a pan on Bonade ligs. They mar MPs almost without exception. Really poor workmanship. I amazed that no one else has mentioned the Bonade problem!
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-05-03 14:44
For students in schools where Cheech 'N' Chong papers are verboten, try camera lens cleaning tissues for pad cleaners. Just be sure to get the plain ones, not the ones impregnated with cleaning fluid. I also keep pipe cleaners in my case. A pipe cleaner is the perfect size for clearing the register key tube or for skinning miscellaneous gunk out of the itty-bitty spaces around the key posts. In an emergency, a pipe cleaner will work as a ligature, for that X-Geeky, ClariNerd look. ;-) I find a pipe cleaner lig easier to adjust than a shoelace.
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Author: Meri
Date: 2000-05-03 19:06
Praises:
Clark Fobes' mouthpieces--the quality is exceptional for the price.
Legere reeds--enough has been said about them.
Bad: Vandoren reed cases--the reeds can only be stored in them after they're dried out; otherwise you could get moldy reeds.
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Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-03 22:11
Don Berger wrote:
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A bit of confusion, flat washers [hose and fiber] can be used as tuning rings, but not ligs. There is a patent on a pair of "O" [circular crossection] rings, I have one, doesn't work real well. Don
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Don,
You can use those things for ligs if they are big enough.
Graham
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2000-05-04 02:47
Paul Wrote: "And now a pan on Bonade ligs. They mar MPs almost without exception. Really poor
workmanship. I amazed that no one else has mentioned the Bonade problem!"
I bought and returned two Bonades before I thought that was enough material to lose off my MP's!
Too bad I'm not the only one.
Meri Wrote: "Bad: Vandoren reed cases--the reeds can only be stored in them after they're dried out;
otherwise you could get moldy reeds."
Try taking the dessicant and sponge insert out! I have been using mine that way for some time now with great
results. I just bought the Selmer reed case with the beveled glass insert... So far I like it just fine.
jv
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Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-04 03:19
Don't get me wrong, but does anybody like the clarinet marching band lyres? I hate them! When I was in high school, I memorized all my music just to avoid using that wretched thing. And, when I was practicing at home, I was tampering with it and wound up chipping my 5RVLyre mp!
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-05-04 05:12
Lelia has a good point here. Carrying cigarette papers in some cities, counties, etc. especially on campus can land you in hot water no matter what your using them for. My wife uses simular papers used hair curlers to clean her flute pads and these are legal. Twice now I've had to show the local constablary why I was buying Zig-Zags at the local Stop & Rob. I don't criticize them though. I retired (Coast Guard) with 3 bullet holes and 5 knife wounds, so I know what they're up against.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-05-04 10:54
One thing I should have mentioned about pipe cleaners -- be sure to get the old-fashioned kind that don't have little metal wires mixed in with the fuzz. The metal scrubbing bits will scratch up a clarinet. I've had a hard time finding the plain pipe cleaners in drugstores recently, but smoke shops and craft supply stores still carry them.
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Author: chogue
Date: 2000-05-05 14:29
SeAn wrote:
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how about some products that aren't meant for the clarinet and yet suitable for using with the clarinet.?
small unused camera-film containers containing water to wet reed before playing.
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Please, everyone, DO NOT use plastic film canisters (like what standard Kodak Gold 35 mm film comes in) for soaking reeds or storing anything that you or other creatures put in their mouths!
There are various chemicals in film that leach into plastic film canisters and cannot be washed out. These substances can migrate into food and water stored in the canisters. I have repeatedly seen warnings that they should NEVER be used for anything that could be ingested.
Better safe than sorry. Maybe find a nice little drinking glass (plastic or glass) to soak reeds. And recycle film canisters -- most photo stores like Ritz will take them.
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Author: larry
Date: 2000-05-05 14:59
Willie (5/4/00) indicated that he had some trouble with law enforcement agents when purchasing cigaretter rolling paper for drying his pads. I can't believe what this country's coming to! These products are sold legally and openly in drug stores and convenience stores. A person shouldn't have to explain himself to a cop. It's not like you were buying a bong, for goodness sake (by the way, does anyone buy bongs anymore? Is there a good clarinet use for a bong?)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-05 17:31
larry wrote:
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Willie (5/4/00) indicated that he had some trouble with law enforcement agents when purchasing cigaretter rolling paper for drying his pads. I can't believe what this country's coming to!
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Which country? Remember - this BBoard goes world-wide, not just to one or two countries.
Here in the USA if some law enforcement types were to hassle me for buying legal items I would immediately go to their superior and lodge an informal complaint. If I received no apology I would lodge a formal complaint.
I don't allow law enforcement agencies to search my car, either, no matter how nice they are - even though I have waited for over 2 hours on the side of the road while the lawmen sopposedly tried to get a warrant. They really never made the attempt, and looked very foolish after the local newspaper got the story.
Hsre in the USA people sometimes give away their freedoms for convenience's sake, many times not even noting that they've done so.
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Author: larry
Date: 2000-05-05 18:40
Mark,
Willie had written:
"Twice now I've had to show the local constablary why I was buying Zig-Zags at the local Stop & Rob. I don't criticize them though. I retired(Coast Guard) with 3 bullet holes and 5 knife wounds, so I know what they're up against."
It just sounded so American. I'd like to know from Willie how he demonstrated to the cops that he used the papers for his clarinet. Did he actually open up his clarinet case and show how the C#/G# key had been corked to prevent water rot?
PS: I like your attitude.
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Author: herb
Date: 2000-05-05 21:17
chogue wrote>>> Please, everyone, DO NOT use plastic film canisters... for soaking reeds...
>>>I use an Rx pill bottle (my Rx), big enough for bari sax reeds.
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Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-06 01:12
larry wrote:
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Willie (5/4/00) It's not like you were buying a bong, for goodness sake (by the way, does anyone buy bongs anymore? Is there a good clarinet use for a bong?)
People sell them all over here in New Mexico. there is a bog gass pipe shop across the street from my school. There ae also people who sell bongs out side. I see them on the way to Mr. Blaymans place.
Graham
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Author: Kylene
Date: 2000-05-06 05:29
I think we need to clarify which we are talking about. The little plastic cases the reeds come in, or the blue plastic case with the charcoal inserts for humidity control. I love my blue case, but hate the little plastic containers that come w/the reeds.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-05-06 06:38
The laws pretaining to drug parafinailia(sp) vary quite a bit. Some are deliberately vaig in desciption so to give the local cops some leeway in thier decision as to whats legal and not legal. It also gives them probable cause to search you and your vehicle/house/purse etc. While it is legal to buy/sell/possess rolling papers in Texas, you still may have to contend with some "Deputy Dawg" types in the smaller towns and counties. I always have some type of old clarinet with me to practice on if I get a chance. I simply pull out a paper and place it under a pad and show them the nice even circular print. They've all been very interested how it works. One officer especially liked the idea as he played sax and had never seen this test before.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-06 13:47
Willie wrote:
<br>-------------------------------
<br>While it is legal to buy/sell/possess rolling papers in Texas, you still may have to contend with some "Deputy Dawg" types in the smaller towns and counties.
<br>------
<br>I'm sure you do. What's really funny is our Hollywood image of a cowboy rolling his own cigarettes - and no one's bothering <i>him</i>.
<br>
<br>Having cigarette papers is not probable cause to inspect your car. Have them get a warrant.
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Author: larry
Date: 2000-05-08 14:12
Hey Willie:
Does George W. know this kind of thing is going on? What is he doing about it? I wonder if Bill Clinton used his rolling papers to dry his sax pads?
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Author: George Kidder
Date: 2000-05-09 18:32
paul wrote:
Why can't we get our sheets of music (consisting of lots of varying sizes of paper) to stay in place on the stand? I use a huge clamp type paper clip for my music drill books to pin down the pages on the Manhasset stand. Works like a champ. The same kind of setup is difficult to manage on the field stand.
-----
The old standard for folding stands is spring-type cloths pins - the wooden ones. Have at least 6 with you - with this you can tack down almost anything. Don't use the music folder - just put the music on the stand and start clipping. Another advantage to no folder is less wind resistance, so less tendency to tip the whole contraption over. It's a bit bit more difficult if the music is a "turner", but you can use a spare clip as a handle. For me, at least, this works better than the extended clips, and it certainly is inexpensive - one pack of cloths pins will last you quite a while, unless your stand-mates run off with them.
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Author: James
Date: 2000-05-10 04:48
How about Lime Away for cleaning mouthpieces. The deposits are calcium or lime deposits, you know, the white stuff that gets around the mouthpiece after a while or the hard white stuff that is inside a mouthpiece you get from e bay or your student's mouthpiece that has not been cleaned. Just remember to rinse it out really well.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-10 11:27
James wrote:
-------------------------------
How about Lime Away for cleaning mouthpieces.
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How about <b>not</b>! Lemon juice works fine and is non-toxic. I don't care how well you rinse the mouthpiece - Lime Away is <b>not</b> safe for consumption! Don't do this! Please!
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-10 13:09
I'm no expert, but apart from making oneself ill, wouldn't lime also harden and damage the clarinet, even if it were washed. (SEE PAST CHEMISTRY EXAMS FOR FURTHER DETAILS)
Also, in one of the cigarrette replies, there was something about a Bong, or Bung(Could be spelt wrong). Okay, i'm a bit young, and I'm English, but can I ask what this is??
(Should I hide now in shame?)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-10 13:13
Lime is a calcium deposit that ends up mostly on mouthpieces. There is evidence (see the Klarinet Archives) that lime deposits form on the toneholes and may actually be the cause of what's known as the "blow-out" phenomena.
If you search here you'll find a discussion of removing lime (calcium) deposits from a mouthpiece.
Re: bong. Do you have a dictionary handy? I always keep one within a few steps of my desk. You should hang your head in shame for not trying to look it up first.
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Author: larry
Date: 2000-05-10 15:21
A bong is a primitive one-holed, cylindrical water pipe, usually made out of clear plastic, although the finer instruments are manufactured from colombian hardwoods. When played for extended periods, the instrument can cause an effect known as "blow out" on the player.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-05-10 20:37
Believe it or not, there are still people who prefer to roll their own (legal) tobacco cigarettes rather than buy ready made ones. And there are still a few people who do so to save money.
Unfortunately too many people buy them to make the illegal type of smokes so the papers then trigger the wrong suppositions in the minds of the authorities.
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-11 13:02
Interesting Dee, I'll remember that if I ever have the sense to buy cigarette papers. HAHA! I was actually right about something for a change (The lime). But griping even further, does anyone think sometimes that the clarinet is a discusting instrument to play? I mean, you put your tongue on a piece of wood smothered in spit, and blow down a tube. Doesn't anyone find that the least bit discusting? Are there more discusting instruments I wonder? I'm sure there are. (Mainly Brass probably)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-11 13:33
Dave Lee Ennis wrote:
-------------------------------
Are there more discusting instruments I wonder? I'm sure there are.
---
I don't know about the disgusting part, but I always enjoy watching french horn players twirl their instruments trying to get the condensation out of those tangled messes of brass tubing!
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Author: Geoff
Date: 2000-05-11 13:42
Re: Cleaning deposits from mouthpieces
Every so often, I soak my mouthpiece (the top half) in white vinegar mixed with water for about 5 minutes. It works great where soap and water didn't. No damage to mouthpiece so far, and I've been doing it awhile.
Also, love silk swabs that pull through the whole clarinet.
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Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-12 19:47
a bass clarinet with a bent neck. If the angle isnt right the spit can come back into the mouth.
gRaham
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