 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-03 14:25
I'm a Sixth Form student in the U.K, whose just passed his Grade 8 Clarinet Exam. I'm not a brilliant performer, but want to continue with performing once I get to university. I'm thinking of getting an A clarinet as well as taking up another clarinet, to making me more of an 'all-rounder', so more people would want me in an orchestra. My teacher says I would be good on Bass Clarinet, but alot of people I know play bass, and I've always been interested in the Alto, and other clarinets. Also, this is all SO expensive, so I'm asking for any sugesstions that might help.
Should I go for Bass, Contra, or Alto, or Basset Horn?, or should I forget the whole thing?
IS GOING 'MULTI' ANY GOOD???
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Author: Frank
Date: 2000-05-03 20:12
You might consider taking up the E flat soprano clarinet. I know that years ago in the U.S. when I was an undergrad you were almost guaranteed a healthy scholarship if you walked into a university and said, "I play E-flat." I play both Eb and bass (bass is more fun!) but there are also more bass clarinetists then Eb players. So it depends on how marketable you want to be.
Good luck,
Frank
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Author: Gary Van Cott
Date: 2000-05-03 23:20
I own an alto clarinet and to be honest the only really useful places to play one is in a clarinet quartet or a clarinet choir. There are very few concert band pieces where their part isn't covered by someone else.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-03 23:53
Gary Van Cott wrote:
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I own an alto clarinet and to be honest the only really useful places to play one is in a clarinet quartet or a clarinet choir. There are very few concert band pieces where their part isn't covered by someone else.
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Which means there's no money in it, only pleasure.
Dan Leeson made part of his living playing basset horns, back when they were hard to find. You needed basset horns, you went to Dan. You rented Dan - not the horns :^)
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-05-04 01:10
You have to ask yourself, what would you like to gain by adding another clarinet.
Contras should come off the list first. I mean, I love contra, and if you can get your hands on one, I would definately try one out, but if you don't like long tones, you won't like contra.
The alto is really a rejected instrument. Some body (usually bass clarinet or alto saxes) is covering their part. But my alto buddy says it is a lot of fun, so it goes either way.
I would personally look into bass, especially if you were told you'd do well. Bass is big, so you get the low stuff, but it gets the fun (fast) stuff too.
I just got back from a sectional where I was quizzing the Eb soprano player. He told me that sometimes he felt like his fingers were getting tied up in knots. But, if you have smaller hands, then it probably wouldn't be a problem.
These are just my thoughts on the instruments. Doubling is a good idea, and I hope you find one that you like!
Kontragirl
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-05-04 05:26
I love playing the contra, bit if expense is a problem, you can scratch the contra first as a good used (affordable) contra is awfully hard to find, at least here in the U.S. Besides parts are rare too unless you play clarinet choir or mainly classical. Most of the time in our community band I play bari sax, tuba or string bass parts to keep the cobwebs from forming and the reed wet. But, it is so FUN!
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2000-05-04 07:16
I think that alto and contra are very rarely used in orchestras. The main orchestral clarinets are of course Bb and A soprano and the Bb bass. I've heard that Richard Strauss and Mozart both make use of Basset Horns (in F I think). I also think that Eb soprano is occasionally used.
Probably the best to go for is Basset Horn, although I've been told it's tricky enough. If you've mastered that, you should have no trouble picking up the bass at a minute's notice. (Bass players, no doubt I am asking for trouble posting this!)
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-05-04 10:43
For someone who wants to become a professional clarinetist, doubling is almost a necessity nowadays and will certainly make you more marketable. Even for an amateur, I think doubling is useful, because you're available to fill in the inevitable gaps in community bands and so forth. Most reed books for musicals and operas call for each musician to play several instruments.
I agree with people who suggest Eb and bass as logical first choices for doublers, since those instruments are more in demand, but my own policy has been that when Opportunity knocks, I don't slam the door in her face -- so when I found a fine, used alto (1979 Selmer) at a great price, I didn't dither over whether I really *ought* to be buying a bass first. Still haven't got a bass! Bird in the hand, etc.. I had played alto in junior high, and as an adult, I've really enjoyed getting acquainted with this beautiful instrument again. Also, owning my own alto lets me prove I'm a ClariNerd, in case anybody questions my credentials! ;-)
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Author: Michael Kincaid
Date: 2000-05-04 11:38
Kontragirl wrote:
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The alto is really a rejected instrument. Some body (usually bass clarinet or alto saxes) is covering their part. But my alto buddy says it is a lot of fun, so it goes either way.
Kontragirl
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The alto parts that I have seen for band are often not very challenging, but I have run across one or two that seem fun.
I'm going to take my alto to band next week and see how I blend with the band. Michael
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Author: Lindy
Date: 2000-05-04 14:50
You might be better off taking up a saxophone, it'll increase the sort of ensembles you can play in (Big bands etc) and woodwind doublers are always in demand for pit orchestras.
i moved from clarinet straight to tenor because there were less tenor players around but alto might simpler.
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Author: Keil
Date: 2000-05-04 21:51
As a mulitfaceted instrumentalist i strongly suggest picking up either bass or Eb. Eb is a bit more difficult than Bass but the power in the lower register of the bass is wonderful. I play Bb, Bass, Eb, Saxophone, Flute/Piccolo, and i will be picking up oboe soon. I'm only 17 and i've found that many oppurtunties have become available to me because of my profficient level of playing on these instruments. In school i primarly play Bb and Eb clarinet, in orchestra i play Bb and Bass, and in Jazz i do all of the above... :-) I hope this is helpful!!
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Author: Amber
Date: 2000-05-04 22:40
Getting the A is a really good idea, when, very recently, I got mine, the conducter came up to me and put me in a new better band, with better parts. I am now his new favorite player, so I have been having a lot of fun. If you are going to double on clarinet, go with a bass oR Eb. It is your best chances, and I have fun on both(though I don't own either).
Doubling on other instruments is a really good idea too! Most pit orchestras need players like that. I played first clarinet, which called for an A,Bb, bass, and Eb. The second player had to play Bb clarinet, alto sax and tenor.
Or switch to an instrument that is high in demand, like tuba or basson. A word of caution. If you have a hard time dealing with the pressure of clarinet, oboe and bassson are ten times worst. Oboe is really hard and as someone who got swindled into learning it, I can tell you it is a big pain. But thats me! So remember to have fun no matter what and you should be fine!:o)
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-05 11:51
I like all of the advice given so far, except that I'm not really a Jass sort of person, so the sax isn't for me. Sorry. I was thinking of Basson as a possibility, because one of my friends doubles on Basson. But, Amber has just put me off that Idea.
One question: To Mgt-grl, What on earth are you talking about?
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-05-05 12:19
Lindy wrote:
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You might be better off taking up a saxophone, it'll increase the sort of ensembles you can play in (Big bands etc) and woodwind doublers are always in demand for pit orchestras.
i moved from clarinet straight to tenor because there were less tenor players around but alto might simpler.
---------------
I was going to leave other types of instrument out of it, since the original question was about what type of clarinet to double on, but I agree about sax as a great doubling instrument. Before I bought the alto clarinet, I started playing alto sax and bass sax. The bass sax was another of those "Opportunity knocks" situations, really a crazy thing to buy, but it has turned out to be my favorite instrument. Then the alto clarinet came along. (I should mention that I'm an amateur, not playing in public, fortunately for the public, but FWIW....) I think there's no such thing as a *bad* choice, really. The more than many-er, as a friend of mine says....
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Author: Debbie Sill
Date: 2000-05-05 12:55
A lot depends on your situation. I play both bassoon and clarinet. I love both of them. When you take up another instrument, your playing time will probably get cut on the other. This doesn't make as much difference if you pick up another clarinet as when you go to a totally different instrument.
Another factor is availability. As far as I can tell, you haven't mentioned whether there are any other instruments available for you could try. Bassoons are relatively expensive, and may not be readily available. I do not know your situation.
If you can, I suggest you try another instrument. You can always go back or decide it's not for you.
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Author: Lindy
Date: 2000-05-05 13:18
I think the more instruments you can play to a resonable standard the more opportunities you will get.
I have played clarinet and Eb for ages (don't really consider A a different instrument in the same sense as Eb or base) and have picked up saxophone in the last year or so and recently flute for a show band.
I'm now getting asked to do alot more gigs than just clarinet.
But I suppose there is the other side of being a jack of all trades.
It's important to keep a primary instrument and put the most into that otherwise you will find your ability slipping for the sake of being OK at several different instruments.
Going back to the original post I think a Bb and A pair would be essential to study music at college, which ever other clarinet you pick is going to put you more in demand, especially if you have the money to own the instrument yourself.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-05-05 23:54
Dave Lee Ennis wrote:
-------------------------------
I'm a Sixth Form student in the U.K, whose just passed his Grade 8 Clarinet Exam. I'm not a brilliant performer, but want to continue with performing once I get to university. I'm thinking of getting an A clarinet as well as taking up another clarinet, to making me more of an 'all-rounder', so more people would want me in an orchestra. My teacher says I would be good on Bass Clarinet, but alot of people I know play bass, and I've always been interested in the Alto, and other clarinets. Also, this is all SO expensive, so I'm asking for any sugesstions that might help.
Should I go for Bass, Contra, or Alto, or Basset Horn?, or should I forget the whole thing?
IS GOING 'MULTI' ANY GOOD???
Dave -
Multi is great. I've always tried everything I could get my hands on, and each instrument I add improves the others. Except for a clarinet in A, which you will have to buy for yourself, the instruments will certainly be owned by the school. Nobody would expect you to buy an alto clarinet to play in the band. Also, it never hurts to be able to say "Yes, I play that."
At a minimum, you should try all the clarinet sizes to see which appeals to you. I've played everything from Eb to BBb contra (which turned out to be my natural instrument - the one I can play without adjusting to anything). You don't have to pick one full time. Just learn how they work. The fingering, the tonguing - everything carries over. If one instrument reaches out and puts its arms around you, by all means go with it.
You should do the same thing with saxophone. The difference is not very great, at least at the basic level of playing in a concert band.
I found flute fairly easy to pick up. The fingering was no problem, though making a good tone took a while. Also, pretty good flutes are available cheap.
I never had any success playing oboe. The fingering came fairly easily, but I never got past the "strangled duck" stage in tone. Also, an awful lot of oboists (though not all of them) use unnaturally high air pressure. If you go for it, be sure to pick a teacher with a relaxed style. If you play oboe well, you will always get into the band, which usually owns the instrument.
The band always owns a bassoon. (A decent quality new one costs as much as a car.) I've never played it seriously, but the times I've tried, I thought it was certainly possible - laid back on air pressure, with the fingerings not that much different from clarinet, even with the double handful of keys for the left thumb. Even more than with oboe, if you play bassoon they always welcome you with open arms.
It wouldn't hurt to think about piano. You already know how to read music, which is a big head start, though using your hands separately rather than together, and playing several lines at once, makes it a big change.
There's been a lot of discussion on whether playing a brass instrument hurts your clarinet embouchure. Those who don't play both tend to say it does hurt. Those who do play both all say it's no problem. Trumpet players are too macho to go in as a beginner. Trombone's the same way. On the other hand, horn and tuba can be played with lower air pressure, and the sections tend to have lower ego pressure.
A lot of people learn some percussion. OK if you can take the noise, and the ability to stand in for an extra cymbal crash or claves line is always useful.
I have no talent for violin. It feels like doing contortions. You separate the functions of your hands instead of combining them as you do with clarinet. There's nothing for your breath to do. There's no place your left hand fingers always go. It's too bad, since most of the best music is for strings. On the other hand, lots of college students go from basic string class into orchestra playing viola or double bass, so anything is possible.
I play the recorder seriously. There's lots of wonderful music for it once you get past the beginner stage. Clarinet fingering translates 98%, and, as a bonus, low register clarinet fingerings work on instruments in F and high register fingerings work on instruments in C, which puts you miles ahead of most other players. Also, you get to play renaissance and baroque music, which is my absolute favorite, and you learn where modern music comes from, which helps your modern playing. Within the last couple of years, excellent plastic recorders have come on the market at very low prices. (Stay away from recorders on eBay and other auctions, though. Unlike the clarinet listings, those for recorder are all overpriced garbage.)
Finally, don't forget about singing. There's loads of great music for voices, solo, small groups and large choruses. You come to singing with a lot of really big advantages. First, you know how to read music, including fast parts, which singers who don't play instruments always struggle with. Second, you know how to hear intervals - another thing that gives most singers fits. Just move your fingers as if you were playing clarinet, and you will hear the next note before you sing it. Finally, you already know about using your breath and supporting the sound, which, once again, singers have to learn from scratch. If you don't sing, you miss out on about half the music in the world.
So, in answer to your original question, multi is great. Mega-multi is even greater. Opening up and embracing new areas of music is the greatest thing in the world. Everything new makes your playing better. Makes YOU better.
The world is waiting.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Amber
Date: 2000-05-06 00:12
I hope didn't scare you away from double red instruments. I DO enjoy learning the oboe, in a masicist sort of way(sp?). It is just that I was told it was easy to pick up and like a fool, I belived him! (Well he was really cute!) I wish someone had warned me about the time commitment and other problems I would run into! Playing a double reed is rewarding, just be sure you know what you are getting into!:o)
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Author: Michael Kincaid
Date: 2000-05-06 00:29
Wow, Ken! Now I feel really inadequate. I do own a flute, but I'd only claim to be able to play it to my friends who aren't in music. Michael
Ken Shaw wrote:
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Dave -
Multi is great. I've always tried everything I could get my hands on, and each instrument I add improves the others. Except for a clarinet in A, which you will have to buy for yourself, the instruments will certainly be owned by the school. Nobody would expect you to buy an alto clarinet to play in the band. Also, it never hurts to be able to say "Yes, I play that."
At a minimum, you should try all the clarinet sizes to see which appeals to you. I've played everything from Eb to BBb contra (which turned out to be my natural instrument - the one I can play without adjusting to anything). You don't have to pick one full time. Just learn how they work. The fingering, the tonguing - everything carries over. If one instrument reaches out and puts its arms around you, by all means go with it.
You should do the same thing with saxophone. The difference is not very great, at least at the basic level of playing in a concert band.
I found flute fairly easy to pick up. The fingering was no problem, though making a good tone took a while. Also, pretty good flutes are available cheap.
I never had any success playing oboe. The fingering came fairly easily, but I never got past the "strangled duck" stage in tone. Also, an awful lot of oboists (though not all of them) use unnaturally high air pressure. If you go for it, be sure to pick a teacher with a relaxed style. If you play oboe well, you will always get into the band, which usually owns the instrument.
The band always owns a bassoon. (A decent quality new one costs as much as a car.) I've never played it seriously, but the times I've tried, I thought it was certainly possible - laid back on air pressure, with the fingerings not that much different from clarinet, even with the double handful of keys for the left thumb. Even more than with oboe, if you play bassoon they always welcome you with open arms.
It wouldn't hurt to think about piano. You already know how to read music, which is a big head start, though using your hands separately rather than together, and playing several lines at once, makes it a big change.
There's been a lot of discussion on whether playing a brass instrument hurts your clarinet embouchure. Those who don't play both tend to say it does hurt. Those who do play both all say it's no problem. Trumpet players are too macho to go in as a beginner. Trombone's the same way. On the other hand, horn and tuba can be played with lower air pressure, and the sections tend to have lower ego pressure.
A lot of people learn some percussion. OK if you can take the noise, and the ability to stand in for an extra cymbal crash or claves line is always useful.
I have no talent for violin. It feels like doing contortions. You separate the functions of your hands instead of combining them as you do with clarinet. There's nothing for your breath to do. There's no place your left hand fingers always go. It's too bad, since most of the best music is for strings. On the other hand, lots of college students go from basic string class into orchestra playing viola or double bass, so anything is possible.
I play the recorder seriously. There's lots of wonderful music for it once you get past the beginner stage. Clarinet fingering translates 98%, and, as a bonus, low register clarinet fingerings work on instruments in F and high register fingerings work on instruments in C, which puts you miles ahead of most other players. Also, you get to play renaissance and baroque music, which is my absolute favorite, and you learn where modern music comes from, which helps your modern playing. Within the last couple of years, excellent plastic recorders have come on the market at very low prices. (Stay away from recorders on eBay and other auctions, though. Unlike the clarinet listings, those for recorder are all overpriced garbage.)
Finally, don't forget about singing. There's loads of great music for voices, solo, small groups and large choruses. You come to singing with a lot of really big advantages. First, you know how to read music, including fast parts, which singers who don't play instruments always struggle with. Second, you know how to hear intervals - another thing that gives most singers fits. Just move your fingers as if you were playing clarinet, and you will hear the next note before you sing it. Finally, you already know about using your breath and supporting the sound, which, once again, singers have to learn from scratch. If you don't sing, you miss out on about half the music in the world.
So, in answer to your original question, multi is great. Mega-multi is even greater. Opening up and embracing new areas of music is the greatest thing in the world. Everything new makes your playing better. Makes YOU better.
The world is waiting.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chloe
Date: 2000-05-06 22:43
I play mainly clarinet with tenor sax and piano on the side. I find it very rewarding to do all three and there are lots of new opportunities thanks to my tenor sax(although I've only played for 8 months....) and piano has been a huge asset to my music GCSE. Don't rule out a sax just because they're often seen as primarily jazz instruments, there's some great classical stuff for sax and many orchestras need saxes for romantic and modern music so it can be a big asset. My orchestra friend got the biggest solo ever because she played alto but we've never done anything needing bass to date. Also in 8 months (as someone working for grade 7 clarinet) I have reached grade 5/6 standard on tenor sax. Alto is supposed to be even easier to pick up.
One problem I have had is people trying to get me to play sax instead of clarinet. The woodwind tutor of my County Band has put a lot of pressure on me to switch as they need tenors and as a third clarinet I can be viewed as fairly inconsequential. I refused and got given quite a hard time because of it. On the other hand, because I play tenor I am going to be in the McDonalds "Our Town Story" performing at the millenium dome in July. If I'd done alto the competition would have been too much and they didn't need clarinets. If you did choose sax, definitely go for tenor because there are loads more opportunities because less people play. If you can borrow a school instrument just for a while. I had a school sax with a broken octave key(had to lip it up!) from September til my birthday in December when I got my very own Buescher Aristocrat which I love. The school instrument was hell to play on but convinced me I wanted to play sax and when I got a decent instrument it seemed so easy! Beware of enbouchure probs though, I have had some (fairly minor but irritating) problems.
But do what feels right- if I hadn't I would be a viola player!!
Good Luck,
Chloe S.
p.s. Where in the UK are you? Did you take Associated Board?
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-05-08 17:06
Michael Kincaid wrote:
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Wow, Ken! Now I feel really inadequate. I do own a flute, but I'd only claim to be able to play it to my friends who aren't in music. Michael
Michael -
Yeah, but I've been doing it more years than I care to remember, and I dumped everything I've done over the years into a few paragraphs. Nobody could do it all at once.
I went to high school back in the prehistoric days when each school owned instruments of every kind. I had my own Bb clarinet, but the Eb, alto, bass and contrabass all belonged to the school, as did all the saxophones, and every other odd thing I tried.
Nobody is good on everything, but everybody should try everything. You just grab whatever's available. The more things you try, and get to where you can play them even a little, the better you get on your main instrument.
All I did was see an alto clarinet sitting around in the back of the band storage room, and tried it out, just to find out what it sounded like. A few years later, I was in Charlie Ponte's music store in New York, and he had a pair of tarogatos (a sort of wood soprano saxophone from Turkey) that he let anyone play. I was in single reed heaven.
You just take the opportunities as they come. Over the years, you build up a "tasting list" of instruments you've tried.
Keep exploring.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-05-08 20:17
Ken Shaw wrote:
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<snip>
I went to high school back in the prehistoric days when each school owned instruments of every kind. I had my own Bb clarinet, but the Eb, alto, bass and contrabass all belonged to the school, as did all the saxophones, and every other odd thing I tried.
__________
Same deal at my California public schools in the 1950s and early 1960s. The teachers would lure kids by playing the more exotic-looking choices for us and then showing us how similar the key systems were -- sort of like showing how to do a magic trick.
Ken wrote:
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Nobody is good on everything, but everybody should try everything. You just grab whatever's available. The more things you try, and get to where you can play them even a little, the better you get on your main instrument.
<snip>
You just take the opportunities as they come. Over the years, you build up a "tasting list" of instruments you've tried.
Keep exploring.
___________________
Isn't that a great thing about playing single reeds? They're naturals for people who like some variety in our lives, who don't just want to auger into a little niche and drill away at it. I agree with you about knowledge carrying over. I can't see that "losing my focus" has hurt me on any instrument -- on the contrary, learning more about how these instruments work, thinking about the similarities and differences and the principles behind them, seems to me to have improved me as a musician overall. I also think I pay attention better during practice, because I'm remembering, for instance, "Sax C, not clarinet C" fingerings.
Lelia
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Author: Contragirl
Date: 2000-05-09 10:44
Hehehe, I've been able to play 5 different clarinets since I was in 10th grade, and I think it's great. I was orginally a contra clarinet, and I switched back to B flat, and I'm first chair. It's kind of burdensome as well, I had to play all 5 at one concert. It's hard to keep track of all of them. I suggest taking up the e flat soprano too, not many people can play it well, but if you can, you'd be in high demand. PLaying alto is like playing a vacuum cleaner (as one of my all state judges put it), and contra usually plays tuba parts, so they could be boring. You have nothing to lose going multi, just don't go crazy.
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-09 11:34
Wow, this is so much to take in. I already play the piano very well, and about 8 years ago, I was the lead recorder in a group, though I can't play it any more (I've forgotten the fingering). To Chloe: Playing piano helped me alot with GCSE's too. What a coincidence - my school is planning to go to the millennium dome as well in July (I wonder if it's for the same thing).
I sing as well by the way, that's what I'll be there for.
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