 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2006-03-30 17:06
In my life now I have held four of the older Charles Bay mouthpieces in my hands that had their former owner's names written out in full. "Custom made for ..." One I let get away, a "Kaspar Copy." But the other three are still with me, one having just arrived today (thanks, Dennis!). Not a problem since this detail makes them even more interesting/desirable to me (although I never wear shirts with designer logos on them ... but who cares?!?!).
Did Mr. Bay always carve your name into the blank when he made you a mouthpiece? Or did he do this only when he worked with the player face-to-face? My impression is that at _one_ time these were the finest, just about the hottest items to have. They still have a sort of "quality glow" about them, black and shiny, and with the glassy, focused sound (that never varies). They're treasures.
What a mystery these old MO-Ms are. A mystery wrapped in bubble wrap surrounded by peanuts.
Bill.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-03-30 17:15
I own a bay which i use on my basset clarinet, it's not custom or ingraved apart form Howarths London. This mouthpiece though is a dream to play and it makes my basset notes ring. Wouldn't part with it for the world. Good investment.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2006-03-30 17:42
He did my bass clarinet neck joint over for me and supplied a complementary mouthpiece for it but no other markings on it. The bass clarinet neck modification is WONDERFUL and I've used that since it came. It eliminates all the weird positions of holding your head to play on a non-adjusted neck joint. Much more comfortable. I would recommend it to anyone who plays bass, especialy doublers. It makes the transition from Eb and Bb to bass (especially DURING a piece like many of the Mahler Symphonies) a lot less weird on the embouchure.
The mouthpiece I initially didn't like but I think it was a matter of matching the right reed to that mouthpiece. It plays well with considseably softer reeds than the Van Doren mouthpiece that had been my standard or the Selmer C* mouthpiece that was my alternate. Now I use it most of the time, except for pieces that require really high notes (like the Grand Canyon Suite). They seem a little more secure on the Van Doren.
Eefer guy
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-30 17:48
My Bay bass clarinet neck (the original one from back in the early 1980's) has a nicely done engraved plate on the mouthpiece socket that proclaims Charlie's efforts for all who examine it. Unfortunately, I only use the mouthpiece end and have it in my Selmer neck, as his original neck was made of too-soft brass that quickly bent itself during normal insertion and removal. (The new ones don't have this problem.)
It's just a harmless form of advertising, and no worse or better than some other gimmicks I've seen. For example, I had a copy made of a favorite clarinet mouthpiece (just in case, you know), and the maker stamped it on the tenon end with the words "God Bless". So far, it's not caused me (the original heathen) any problems...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-03-30 18:49
I've played Bay mouthpieces in the past (wish I still had the one I sold the Russian clarinetist in Israel), and have worked with Charlie on them. He made a duckbill version Kaspar model for me and also a standard beak model and didn't put my name on either of them. So, I don't know what the criteria would be for getting your name on them. I will say I wish I still had the one I mentioned that went to the Russian guy because it was one of the original Chedeville blanks that Mr. Bay bought when he bought out the remaining stock of Chedes. It was a super player. When I sold it (after the guy begged me constantly to sell it to him) I thought I would come home, call Mr. Bay and he'd have one out to me right away. No big deal. Well, it was a big deal because he didn't have any more of the original Chedes left and what he sent out just didn't measure up to the one I sold. However, I did keep one of them (not the duckbill). He was playing a duckbill at the time and encouraged me to try it. So, I did. Sigh.
You are right, Bill, about them being really nice. His good ones back in the prime were certainly wonderful things. His new ones now are good too. I guess I'm spoiled.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-03-30 19:16
His bass clarinet mouthpieces are too open for my taste, giving a 'hard' quality to the sound and forcing the use of softer reeds -- I used to play his MO-M model (and tried many of these and some of his other facings along the way) but gradually weaned myself off of them. And, everything he makes is overpriced IMHO. Re-angled necks, in particular, can be had much cheaper than his going rate.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2006-03-30 20:52
Brenda,
Anytime you'd like to try an old Bay, just contact me and I'll send you one (moderators note: no sale proposed here!). I suspect your memory of the Bay may have "improved" with time. It might be a shocker, especially given the stellar equipment you use now. But it is a nice sound - very bright and laser-focused. They all play the same (for me).
Bill.
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Author: William
Date: 2006-03-30 21:33
Charlie wrote my name in full on the custom mpc he made for me in 1970 while he was still in Ithica, NY. It has the oval stamp but off to the side is "Custom made for *my name*, 1-1-1970". I have another Ithica Bay mpc that I got when I bought my old girlfriend's R13 on which he engraved his name and Ithica, NY in long hand, but not her name. It was, I think, a mouthpiece that he produced for anyone to buy. But I think that if you special ordered and mouthpiece, it was his custom to engrave your name on it. For me, I had given him my Chicago Kaspar mpc at the 1969 Mid-West Clinic in Chicago and asked him to copy its facing onto one of his, which he did soon after returning to his home. And for that "special" order, I got my name engraved on it. No big deal, just a custom of Charlies for special order mpcs.
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Author: hartt
Date: 2006-03-31 00:36
HI Bill
Thank you and you're welcome ! Glad you liked my packaging.
I offer the following in hopes that it will resolve some of your questions.
Back in the summer of '65, after I graduated HS adn before going into the Lousiana sym, I went to Ithaca college for a clarinet workshop with Charlie....Mr. Bay in those days.
At that time, he made me a mp. It was from old 1950's Chedville stock blanks he had. It was an honest to goodness real Chedville blank. Long story short....I tooted, he whittled. I tooted, he whittled. When finished, he took the measurements and hand engraved them on the mp. Also hand engraved was: Charles Bay, Ithaca College, Ithaca NY. (No machine stamping in those days)
As an aside.....at the '02 OSU Symposium, I asked Charlie what the #/letters indicated. He recalled the #'s as the tip and facing BUT dod not know what the letters represented. I asked him this from memory: 105/34/LM
Onward: After I stopped playing in , oh 72 or 73, that mp sat in my double case for 30 yrs. When I decided to stop making like Rip Van Winkle and awake from my long sleep, I couldn't play the mp anymore or (don't exactly recall) I couldn't get a sound I liked....age, broken fingers, tongue surgery, neck fusion surgery ????
I gave that mp away to a former girlfriend who also played clarinet. She said she'd treasure it. I hope she still does AND knows what she really has!!
Now.........for the later era Bay mps........the ones that are made from a different blank and are 'press engraved with his name, filled in with white 'paint'. These ,too, are engraved with the mp dimmensions......'stock' dimmensions UNLESS, like the one you bought from me, was customized/personalized by Charlie.
The blanks he used in the early 70's were not the same as those used in later yrs (I assume he changed blanks when his supply ran out)
The one I sold you (made in '73) belonged to Bob Sagar, here in Tucson, a dear and personal friend. Bob was the 2sd clarinetist in the Tucson SO from 68-75.
I sold this mp for Bob, who purchased it directly from Charlie.
Now:.......Charlie made mp's and sold them thru retail outfits..........those are the 'mass produced ones'. When someone (like Bob....or a William mentioned above) ordered one direct from Charlie AND he did work on it, he would then hand engrave the buyer's/player's name.
This particular mp you received was not only ordered direct from Charlie but also sent back 2 times. Bob tried it and sent it back with comments of what he was trying to obtain with the sound. After the first trip back, it was engraved with his name.
What was done to the chamber/baffle/etc, only Charlie and heaven knows lol.
Bob played it until he left the TSO a few yrs later.
Hope this sheds some light on your mystery.
BTW, I have a 1940's eefer mp that is a Chedville. It's stamped with the QS writing along the table and a #1 at the bottom. It is stamped Harold Freeman. As far as I can tell, it is unplayed on. Harold was the 2sd/eefer in the NBC under Toscanini.
toot toot
dennis
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-03-31 13:25
Bill, thanks for the offer. I suspect you are right about memory improving. Aren't we like that? Humans are such strange creatures. And, the Bay mouthpiece was my first professional, hand-made mouthpiece, so that is a factor. If I had compared it side by side with the ones I play now I'm sure the result would be different. You should have seen the smile on the Russian guy's face. He had wanted a Charles Bay mouthpiece for years and couldn't find one. He said they were highly valued in Russia among the orchestral clarinetists. BTW, he was an excellent player--so it got a good home.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2006-04-02 03:02
Thanks, Dennis. This mouthpiece (a Chas. Bay "Old Chedeville copy") is a lovely player. I had my friend listen as I played this one and a standard Bay MO-M of the same era (Ched blank also). He liked this one best (he's not a clarinetist); said it had nicer "low notes" and less shrill high notes. Nearly identical mouthpieces but with very different baffle shapes.
I compared the baffles of this and two other Bay mouthpieces (same blanks, same overall design), and this one has a pronounced concavity. The only comparable mouthpieces with similar baffles were a very old Buffet mouthpiece refaced by Vytas Krass ("Artistic facing"), a Sumner I just sold, and a very old wooden Buffet (bottom logo) mouthpiece.
Interestingly, none of my *genuine* "Old Chedevilles" (various vintage blanks labeled as "C. Bettony," "Linton," various Q.S. blanks, and others) had such a scooped baffle, and certainly the 50's and 60's (labeled) Chedevilles did not. I noted that the baffle shape for all the labeled Chedevilles, as well as three "D. Bonade" Q.S. mouthpieces, was the same - hard to desribe, but one that began shallow then deepened (in a sort of "twist") as it reached the bore.
In my play test of the evening, with a single #3 Glotin reed, although I enjoyed (of course) everything I played, my favorite item was a "D. Bonade" Q.S. refinished by Vytas to the older Chas. Bay "MO-M' specifications (which I had asked him to replicate when I sent him the mouithpiece for work). Kind of ironic!
Bill.
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