 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-03-30 12:30
Recently my first purchase of an early hard-rubber instrument led to reading through the archives about discoloration in older hard-rubber items. Many of those discussions were about older mouthpieces, since that's logically where most people today are going to come into contact with natural rubber instrument parts.
The conclusion seemed to be that there was little that could be done to change the color of these. "The Doctor" makes a product that helps, it was noted, but nothing takes away the discoloration.
I like to tinker with stuff, so when I recently got a mpc that caused my wife to scream, "GROSSSSS!!!!!! YECCCHH!!!" when she saw it, I thought that I'd try something simple.
This thing had apparently been stored for years with the ligature on it. Under the parts that the ligature covered, it was still relatively dark. The parts that were exposed to the air were a mixture of green, yellow, and tan colors. It reminded me of oxidized laquer auto finish from years past, and made me go ... "Hmmmmm!"
With nothing to lose, I scrounged up an old can of automotive polishing compound. This is the white stuff that was used in the final rub-out of laquer auto paint jobs (among other things) in the old days, or in accurate restorations of certain models today. It's abrasive, but far less so than the reddish-color rubbing compound. When watered down, it's pretty tame stuff. This can be found at any auto paint supply store, and is probably going to be available at most parts retailers. I prefer a certain brand, but I'm a bit gun-shy about posting product names here.
Using a scrap of white T-shirt, wrapped around my finger as in spit-shining shoes, I went to work on the mpc. It was slow, but the results were very impressive. Looking at the surface of my polishing rag, I could see that not very much material at all was being removed, but what was coming off was just the yellow-colored stuff that I'm assuming was oxidized rubber. There was absolutely no visible--even under a magnifying glass--change to the markings on the part. Only the presumably-softer, discolored, material was coming off. Although I avoided the facing area, I can't help but think that judicious use of this stuff isn't going to do any damage there, either, especially if applied with the right technique.
I'm not recommending this to anyone, but it's something that a few of you might want to try on an old mouthpiece that you might otherwise not use. At first blush, it looks like a pretty good solution.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-30 13:48
Indeed, appears to work. And boy look at the cleaning rag afterwards...yeuch. And it's cork friendlier than just tossing it into the dishwasher. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
Post Edited (2006-03-30 13:48)
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-30 14:24
Much of the discoloration is due to the "devulcanization" of the rubber compound in the mouthpiece. Sulphur and sulphur compounds separate from the matrix into which they were mixed, they migrate to the surface of the item, and presto! green yellow mouthpiece time.
Rubber (unlike much of the plastic world) is not a "set item". The rubber material is not a compound (in chemical terms) so much as it is a "mixture", with the raw materials macerated and worked through a set of rollers called a mill some hundreds of times until the various components are well distributed throughout the ball of raw material. The sulphur in the mix prevents the rubber from acting like rubber (softening in the heat, sticking to all and sundry), and it does a great job until things get old.
Some plastics exhibit a similar behavior, but in those cases it's the leaching out of the plasticizer in the compound that allows them to go brittle and fail.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-03-30 16:02
The rubbing compound is indeed abrasive and removes the outer layer containing the colored sulphur compounds. Continued aging will bring them back and is accelerated by sunlight, poluted air, and even oxygen in the air. If using abrasives of any kind I would steer clear of the facing and rails in the process because even a tiny alteration can lead to dramatic changes in mouthpiece performance.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: J B Lansing
Date: 2006-03-30 16:52
Interesting. I did pretty much the same thing with a 2RV I got a while ago. Only I used a general, all purpose metal polish. I worked on it until it was smooth and had a low luster. Some of the tan discoloration is still there but I think it just adds character.
J B
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-03-30 17:27
There are plastic polishing products on the market that are similar to the finer grade auto finish polishes. Both seem to be viable.
Bob Draznik
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-03-30 17:46
The rubbing compound is indeed abrasive and removes the outer layer containing the colored sulphur compounds.
I defer totally to the superior expertise of "The Doctor," but only wish to note that I specified the white polishing compound, rather than the orange-red rubbing compound. Duly noted that it's still abrasive, but considerably less so than rubbing compound. I only post this lest someone buy a can of the latter and seeks to have my guts for garters as a result.
On that topic, though, Omar...what if the face was "rubbed" by putting a thin paste of polishing compound on a flat sheet of glass and working it that way?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-30 18:00
On that topic...what about using mild toothpaste and a decommissioned brush?
--
Ben
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-03-30 21:31
Of course it is hard to tell how much rubber is actually removed by rubbing the table and rails even with a very mild abrasive, but I have seen mouthpiece custom makers make one light swipe on 600-800 grit wet-dry paper on a glass plate and make a decernable difference in the way that the customer perceived the playing of the mouthpiece. I just do not mess with anything that may alter the lay, table, or rails -- just my humble AR self!!
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: clarinet60
Date: 2006-03-31 06:04
I have several older "Qualite Superiuer" mouthpieces that have a geenish tint, yet they seem to work very well. Aside from the cosmetic look does the coloration necessarily mean that they mouthpiece will eventually lose it's performance qualities?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-03-31 12:15
Another way to look at those discolored old mouthpieces is that they advertise you're playing vintage equipment. That may be good or bad depending on the extent to which your conductor's all sold on the "latest and greatest" concept.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Clarinetcola
Date: 2006-04-01 16:02
so is it safe to play with a greenish mouthpiece? I have the same case with an old mouthpiece i wanna use again after several years. the colour somehow reminds me of toxic pharts so i'm wandering if its safe to play w/ it.
Nathan
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-04-01 18:44
An interesting exchange of experience and views/opinions. Be brave, Omar, I make some swipe-polishes on good mps, making improvement and without doing any noticeable damage. If I "bear down" its on the table not the rails/tip, I'm always desiring a flat table,. I suggest y'all read on the Yahoo "Mouthpiece Work" site for fine info. Re: Qual Super, I understand that these oldies MAY be Cheds and other goodies, so be cautious. Re: a H2O2 DIP,even in the bottle strength, about 5% HP in water, I've had no problems, wouldn't do it overnite tho. I recently asked if any of my Yahoo friends knew of the composition of Graftonite mp's, possibly graphite-filled ebonite ?? Thots, LOH? TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-04-02 21:52
Somewhere else SusieRay mentioned using Maas metal polish. I tried it yesterday and it does indeed do a great job. As an aside, if the pink color turns yellow it's an indication the mp is indeed hard rubber.
Bob Draznik
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