 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: illibero
Date: 2006-03-26 08:50
This kind of ties into my earlier post about the two RC's. I took the one we bought to a teacher/technician to see what he though of it. We got out two other brand new RCs and shuffled the three around, and handed them to him without him looking. His first reaction to playing the one we bought was that the sound felt quite open, as if it had been played/broken in already and had been played for quite a while. We then got him to inspect the clarinet. The top tenon cork, which connects to the barrel, was black, and he explained that that only happens after a while for the oil in the wood to stain the cork. Note that I have not put any cork grease on any of the joints, except on my own mouthpiece. Prior to taking the clarinet in to get inspected, I'd only played it for a maximum of one hour.
He then pointed out that the trill key pads were already stained as well, and said that that happened to his clarinets after about a years worth of constant playing. Upon checking the serial number, it was 3000+ numbers earlier than his brand new RCs, which had shipped in during January. He guessed that our clarinet was about 18 months to 3 years older than his newer ones. I went to the shop we bought the clarinet from to try and see if we could get a refund from the owner, since we were expecting to get a NEW instrument, with reasonable test wear. Well, the guy's first reaction was "That's just crap". He explained that colouration of the top joint cork occurs practically from the moment you put the barrel on. With regards to the pads, he said that he could assure me that his clarinets were not second hand and that if I wanted, I could swap my RC for the other RCs they had. I passed on that, since I'd already tested all of them and "prefered" the one we'd bought.
So who am I to believe? If i could get a refund, i could then get the other one i really loved. How do you tell how much a clarinet has been used/tested?
Awaiting your replies.
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Author: joannew
Date: 2006-03-26 10:59
I think you have answered your question yourself already. "I'd already tested all of them and "prefered" the one we'd bought".
This is a clarinet that will last you a lifetime, and it is likely that you will rack up thousands and thousands of playing hours. Would thousands and thousands plus ten hours make a difference? Thousands and thousands plus a hundred?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-03-26 11:02
Go here: www.buffet-crampon.com
Then stand with your mouse on products (without clicking) and then from the menu choose serial number search. Then choose Buffet Crampon for the brand, and professional clarinet for the instrument, and put your RC's serial number.
That should tell you what year it was made in. Why do I say should? Because it doesn't work all the time. It detects my R13 easily, but my bass clarinet doesn't seem to exist 
Hope it works for you.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-26 12:04
My bass clarinet doesn't show up on there either - maybe they haven't got round to adding harmony clarinets built since 1999 on there yet.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-03-26 14:10
Sounds like you should have done your negotiating before you made the purchase.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-03-26 15:46
BobD,
You're kinda fiesty today!
I'm thinking that our colleague in Oz is on a steep learning curve and thank him for dragging us along with him.
This discussion has convinced me to "pop" for the extra $500 to get that perfect horn --or to find that wizard tech who can turn a hunk of kindling into a gem.
Bob Phillips
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-03-26 15:55
I wouldn't be too concerned about this being a used horn. It vould very well have been in the shop for 18 months (not the worst place), and could have been test-played by others, just as you played it. Those things could "tell" on the instrument. (Was there really key "wear" or was it just mild discoloration?)
The key is that it was the best-sounding of the three that were tried.
Don't give yourself an ulcer over this. Play the horn and enjoy it!
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2006-03-26 16:23
Illibero:
Accept the fact that you have a clarinet that:
1) you feel isn't as good as the 1st one you tried;
2) may not be straight off the factory shelf;
3) plays better than the other ones at that store & most importantly;
4) YOU OWN!!
This clarinet is no longer new & guess what - that's because you purchased it. Don't expect the store owner to refund money to you because you didn't do your homework before the purchase or were in a hurry to purchase. Asking for money back so you can go buy the other one is really in bad taste. Get on with your life & clarinet playing. If two years from now you don't like the current instrument or the bad taste in your mouth doesn't go away, start a search for a new/different instrument. Take what you have learned from this experience & apply it to the new search. In the meantime, make YOUR instrument sing. It's really not the instrument, it's the person playing it.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2006-03-27 15:16
Ths reminds me of threads going on in the Klarinet reflector. There are a few things you need to remember: NO clarinet is ever going to be brand-new and virgin out of the box,and play all that well. Like any fine, precision instrument, a clarinet needs to be set up by (at least!) a competent techincian and inspected for seals, alignment of keys, as well as outright defects. This would include even (GASP!!!) play-testing the instrument to make sure it isn't a dog.
Aferwards, any number of people might have test-played the horn in the shop and, for whatever reason, decided not to buy it. Maybe not because of a lack of quality, but rather they really couldn't aford the extra money and settled for a lower-priced R13, or another brand or horn entirely. Who knows? And more importantly, does it really matter? The instrument is considered "new" until you or someone else buys it. After that it is used.
If you go to a car lot to get a "new car," remember that somebody had to drive it off the assembly line, into a holding lot, onto a train, off the train, onto a truck, off the truck into the dealer's lot. Then the dealer also had the audacity to start up the motor to perform setup so that the thing won't explode when you try to drive it off the lot. And these puppies cost many times more than your clarinet! They are still considered "new" until title changes hands to the first purchaser.
Enjoy the clarinet you bought. No go out, play it, and make it your own.
Jeff
Post Edited (2006-03-27 15:56)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-03-27 16:10
Were you given the warranty card from Buffet? If so, the serial no. of your instrument should be on it (a sticker probably). It cannot have been sold to anyone besides you. It probably was play-tested in the store. I agree with corks&pads that you can find a worse place for an instrument to have been stored than in the temperature controlled music store. If you like it, keep it and don't worry about it. But, any reputable Buffet dealer should take an instrument back within a specified time period (some state 10 days, others longer). So if you found out right away that you didn't get what you thought, he should have taken it back. Sometimes they'll charge you a "restocking fee," but if you're set on getting your money back part of it is better than none.
However, since you stated you liked it--keep it. Hopefully you got a good price.
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-03-27 17:22
Illibero,
I have been watching your original thread on the purchase of this instrument and now this one on some of your regrets. As I recall, in the original thread you stated that your mother purchased it for you, and that she wished to save $500 (AUS???) on the horn you purchased as opposed to the one you wish you had today.
A lot of advice is floating around, some of which assumes that you are an adult with experience in negotiating prices or conditions of sale or dealing with returns departments. I think it is important for all of the other posters -- some of whom have stated that they are in their 50s or older and have owned dozens of instruments over the years to know if they are posting advice to a younger or an older person.
How old are you, and how many instruments have you purchased before this one? I , for one, would give somewhat different advice to a 14 year old than to a 25, 45, or 65 year old; I suspect others might also feel the same way. And, if you are young enough, and using funds of your parents for the purchase, it might be more appropriate to be giving this advice to your mother than to you. Note that I am not assuming that because you just purchased an expensive model you are older, because you might be fairly young with parents who are trying hard to give you a wonderful gift that could last for a lifetime in a career or hobby.
Some of the advice such as: a) confront the dealer; or b) grow up and live with it; or c) go do detailed negotiations -- means something different to a 50 year old then it does to a 25 year old than it does to an 18 year old than it does to a 13 year old. So, if you want to receive better advice on this purchase, it might be wise to state your age so that the posters can tailor their advice to your experience level in dealing with big purchases. If you are under 18, different advice is appropriate than if you are an adult. Again, I do not think that you should be treated with any less respect or honesty by a dealer (or by any poster on this Bulletin Board) if you are younger than if you are older, but if you are fairly young, the strategies that you might use to fix the situation are possibly different than if you are older.
George
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-03-27 23:22
According to an article on the IDRS website, Buffet makes around 22,000 clarinets each year at their Mantes-la-Ville factory. That would include harmony clarinets and, unless things have changed, the E13 as well as their various professional Bb and A clarinets. While I'm not sure I completely trust their serial number list, in 2002 (the most recent year reported), their professional clarinets (Bb and A -- RC, R13, and higher-end models), all of which are on the same serial numbering system, ranged from 495714 to 510632 -- just under 15,000 instruments. From the serial number list on this site under "How old is my ...?" in 1994, 95 and 96, Buffet's production of professional model clarinets was 14,000, 15,000 and something over 16,000, respectively. From this, it would seem that two recent Buffet RC's whose serial number differed by only 3,000 would have been made within a few months of each other.
Best regards,
jnk
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