 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: cph
Date: 2006-03-24 16:08
Okay, so I'm a grad student that was just given a question for my comprehensive exam and am looking for research sources; maybe someone out there has a suggestion or two?
-Identify the principal clarinetists for the five major US orchestras (Cleveland, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago) from the beginning of the 20th century to the present.
(this is just one of several parts to this question, but the rest isn't so difficult to find information on!)
Post Edited (2006-03-24 16:15)
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-03-24 16:41
I'm sure each orchestra has a website and probably an email address for its public relations department. I'd try there first.
The NY Philharmonic is probably an easy one, since its current principal has sat in the chair for close to half a century. My guess would be: Bellison, McGinnis, Drucker.
As for the others, fill in the blanks (X's)
Cleveland: X, Marcellus, X
Boston: X, Wright, X
Philadelphia: X, Gigliotti, X?, Morales
Chicago: X, X, Coombs
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2006-03-24 16:46
It's fortunate that you didn't ask us to give you this information directly, as many on this board have shown themselves to be strong believers in letting students do their own research.
I don't know of any good reference books on this as I have never looked for any, but you could go to the web sites of the various orchestras. That should at least give you the present principals. I don't know if someone from the orchestras would respond if you e-mailed them asking for this information, but they might.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2006-03-24 16:58
I'm sure their PR offices would have something, and if nothing else, they could refer you to archives which would have copies of old programs. Further study could lead you to find recordings of these groups from various time periods and see of a roster is listed.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-03-24 17:11
cph wrote:
> Okay, so I'm a grad student that was just given a question
> for my comprehensive exam and am looking for research sources;
> maybe someone out there has a suggestion or two?
Part of grad school is learning how to research difficult problems. This particular question is certainly not very difficult.
Although much of this information is readily available (it took me about 5 seconds to find the complete clarinet roster of Chicago since the end of the 19th century) it is your job to piece together everything from various sources.
For starters, concert programs, recordings, emails to the public relation departments and current orchestra members, The Clarinet magazine, and numerous clarinets texts should give you all the answers.
To all: Please remember the posted bulletin board rules (which even apply to graduate school)
"...No doing people's homework for them - however, helping with references or helping after someone has exhausted their local resources is most welcome..."
...GBK
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-03-24 17:22
In addition, since the historical listing of major symphony clarinetists is frequently referenced and discussed on this board, it would benefit all if you would post your completed list(s) when you finally gather all the information - GBK
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-03-24 17:27
The best place to start is with the orchestra itself.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-03-24 18:48
There ought to be a banner on the bulletin board here that says:
"Welcome to the Clarinet Bboard; don't bother us with any questions. Now go away and do your own research."
Really, GBK, there's no reason to be so holier-than-thou. It's not like this is a forum about post graduate research methodologies. Unless you haven't noticed lately, it's a clarinet forum.
The fact that someone found his or her way here to ask the question shows some initiative.
Oh yeah, and please post the results of your research which we won't help you with here for future reference.
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Author: cph
Date: 2006-03-24 18:48
I was simply asking if anyone had any advice on source materials; isn't that one way of searching?
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Author: cph
Date: 2006-03-24 18:52
"For starters, concert programs, recordings, emails to the public relation departments and current orchestra members, The Clarinet magazine, and numerous clarinets texts should give you all the answers."
-incidentally, GBK, thanks for recommending some source materials!
Post Edited (2006-03-24 18:53)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-03-24 19:01
larryb -
holier-than-thou? Please...
Reread the original posting, which stated:
"...was just given a question for my comprehensive exam and am looking for research sources; maybe someone out there has a suggestion or two?..."
Were different suggestions for finding the information given in subsequent postings?
Yes...
I wish that when I was in graduate school I was able to get instant answers (without the work) simply by asking a few thousand clarinetists, worldwide. Life would have been so easy.
Then again, I probably would never have set foot in a library ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
I am still waiting for the original poster to tell us all the places he has looked for the information...GBK
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-24 19:05
> I am still waiting for the original poster to tell us all the places he has looked
> for the information...GBK
Mind you; I visit several programmers' newsgroups and still I see a lot of questions that could be faster answered via cut&paste from google than by wording them yourself.
The one motto I still remember from school is "to know means to know where to look".
--
Ben
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-03-24 19:09
cph wrote:
> incidentally, GBK, thanks for recommending some source materials!
Have you looked through any of Pamela Weston's books, how about Kycia's book, Kupferberg's book, or Shannon Thompson's dissertation?
Do you have access to any back issues of The Clarinet?
Those are some good places to start.
In looking through those few sources you might actually find some useful and fascinating information not even directly related to your original topic.
The best part of solving a problem is the route to finding the answer...GBK
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-03-24 19:15
"a few thousand clarinetists, world-wide"
GBK: What a powerful research tool that is! How is that any less legitimate than Pamela Weston's books? Who's to say that she's totally accurate? Has her scholarship been formally "peer reviewed" (as opposed to book reviewed in The Clarinet?)
Libraries - pfui Teufel! - so quaint and old school.
Post Edited (2006-03-24 19:15)
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Author: kchan ★2017
Date: 2006-03-24 23:38
Pamela Weston's book "Yesterday's Clarinettists: a sequel" attempts to catalog players and orchestras, but I haven't looked at it for a while so I don't know if all of those orchestras are listed. It's available for purchase through one of our website sponsors http://www.vcisinc.com/.
If they really wanted to make life difficult, they could have asked you to list every 2nd player.
Ken
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-03-25 03:10
I have a CD that says the players are from the Clevland orchestra nad the clarinet player is Frank Cohen. I would imagine he is still in that orchestra now since it is a pretty new CD I think. I'll also add that he is really a great player!
Hope that helps.
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2006-03-25 07:28
Slightly off subject.... "The five major US orchestras" does not include Los Angeles... So sad.
Andres Cabrera
South Bay Wind Ensemble
www.SouthBayWinds.com
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2006-03-26 08:11
Chicago
1891 - 1921 Schreurs, Joseph
1921 - 1923 Meyer, Carl H.
1922 - 1923 Siniscalchi, Joseph (Giuseppe)
1923 - 1949 Lindemann, Robert
1949 - 1950 Lurie, Mitchell
1950 - 1951 Gennusa, Ignatius
1951 - 1978 Brody, Clark
1978 - Larry Combs
Philadelphia
1931-40 McGinnis, Robert
1940-43, 1949 Portnoy, Bernard
1943-51 McLane, Ralph
1949-96 Gigliotti, Anthony M.
1996-97 Hara, Burt
1999-03 Caviezel, Samuel
2003- Riccardo Morales
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-03-26 10:53
prior to the internet, this question could have taken weeks to answer without a library that had access to a couple of magazines published in the US. Isn't it fantastic that people can now discover this kind of information in "about 5 seconds". It's yet even MORE FANTASTIC that people can now ask "a few thousand players worldwide" for advice.
Very thoughtful Hiroshi, you did some of the homework for cph, but now YOU have broken one of the rules!
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Author: cph
Date: 2006-03-26 17:13
So, I actually found all of the information I needed a few hours after the original posting. A friend reccomended the Pamela Weston books to me, and they were very helpful. This was fun, though!
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-03-26 20:29
cph - you didn't find the information, rather your had it gathered for you, right?
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-03-26 21:28
Cph,
congrats on finding all the information. Now, will you please post it here so that we can all benefit from your research? Hiroshi gave us some of the information.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-26 21:43
You all act as if cph fraudulently obtained this information. He asked one question, some responded and now you bash cph for getting his answers.
Huh?
--
Ben
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-03-26 23:20
tictac: I wasn't bashing cph - I'm glad s/he found what he was looking for and thought s/he should have found this Bboard to have been more fertile ground for information about the clarinet. If s/he posts what s/he found, then perhaps the next scholar will be able to find and use the information without being hectored by some future moderator about post graduate research methodologies.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-03-26 23:36
larryb wrote:
> tictac: I wasn't bashing cph - I'm glad s/he found what he was
> looking for and thought s/he should have found this Bboard to
> have been more fertile ground for information about the
> clarinet. If s/he posts what s/he found, then perhaps the next
> scholar will be able to find and use the information without
> being hectored by some future moderator about post graduate
> research methodologies.
Well, as one of those "hectoring moderators", Larry, I have to point out a few things ...
1) This Bboard and these pages are hardly ever a primary source. The amount of misinformation posted here is astounding, but luckily we have a few people who actually consult primary sources and relate the sources here.
2) We have rules. Some people (probably 99%) might accidentally step on a few. Some people don't like the rules and decide they don't have to follow them. After that happens repeatedly we decide to ban them from here. It's not worth our time putting up with their BS - both GBK & I have better things to do.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-03-26 23:48
Author: GBK (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: 2006-03-24 17:22
In addition, since the historical listing of major symphony clarinetists is frequently referenced and discussed on this board, it would benefit all if you would post your completed list(s) when you finally gather all the information - GBK
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-03-26 23:55
larryb wrote:
Your point? Posting here does not constitute a primary source for research; rather, it might be informative and might be right, but I wouldn't hazard MY post-grad education on what might be said here.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2006-03-29 01:26
A suggestion to cph: ask your music librarian for assistance. He or she can guide you to useful sources, whether on paper or in cyberspace.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-03-29 10:58
Hi,
Mark C and GBK are right on about their comments concerning searches as well as the information found here on BB not being considered primary.
All too often, new researchers look for the "low-hanging fruit" and consider that as an end point in finding resources. Mark makes an outstanding point by alluding to this BB not be a totally credible source. He has correctly pointed out the fact that there is a lot of misinformation floating around in "these halls."
At the graduate as well as the upper undergraduate level of higher education, it is imperative that any source used in a paper be retrievable by anyone as well as credible. If the resource is from a referred periodical or a respected author/institution/organization, that is even better.
One disservice that often occurs with hearsay information is that myths are perpetuated well beyond worth.
Be cautious young researchers!
HRL
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