 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: emilliano
Date: 2006-03-10 09:15
I am a flute player but I want to learn to play the clarinet, too. Is it better for me my first instrument to be with an Eb lever or not?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-10 09:43
Will you be buying a plastic student model clarinet or a pro model wooden one as your first clarinet?
The only plastic clarinet on the market with an optional alternative Eb lever is the Buffet B12 - though I've only seen them listed in catalogues but never in real life, so you might have to order one specially.
Some pro model clarinets will have the Eb lever as standard, though it is always an option with every maker.
But if you're just starting and buy a plastic clarinet I don't think it's a necessity to have an Eb lever at this early stage - later on you might decide to upgrade to a pro model that does.
Just a matter of opinion, but I think it should be fitted as standard.
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Author: emilliano
Date: 2006-03-10 10:12
Thanks for the advice. No, I'm not buying a plastic model. I think of buying an Amati intermediate model. I hestitate about the option of having an Eb lever and also about nickel-plated or silver-platet keywork.
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Author: Al Amir
Date: 2006-03-10 10:15
My esperiece with Eb lever clarinets is that they are almost out of tone ad so very difficoult to play to get right intonation.
Originally they where made for orchestra players which could play A clarinets parts with Bflat clarinets. One instead of two instruments to buy! (End of the II war). Now all directors want the right instrument for the right part, so A clarinet has to be acquired from orchestra players.
So I suggest plain clarinet.
Al
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-10 10:28
"My esperiece with Eb lever clarinets is that they are almost out of tone ad so very difficoult to play to get right intonation."
They shouldn't be out of tune as the LH Eb lever is only opening the Eb key uncovering the same tonehole used by the RH Eb key. It's a bit like some oboe players saying the notes produced by using the LH F key (xxxF|xxo) and cross F key (xxx|xxFo) don't sound the same when it's the same tonehole issuing the note and there's absolutely no difference in tone quality or tuning.
Unless you're referring to full Boehms with the low Eb key there, Al, - then I agree that these do have some tuning problems, though nothing that can't be sorted out by a bit of hard work.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-03-10 10:41
I'm actually going to disagree with what Al says here for several reasons. There's no way that the Eb lever would affect the intonation, as Chris says it's just opening the same tonehole that the regular one does. As someone who learned from the beginning on an instrument without this lever, I have a very difficult time with this lever. It gets in my way, so I've taken them off of every instrument that's had it. Now, that's partially laziness though, I could incorporate it into my practice schedule, and do every exercise that uses that key twice, using each key once. There are many instances that I've found it's useful, particularly in transcriptions that aren't sensitive to this issue. Also, it's very useful in the Debussy Premiere Rhapsodie, in the section with 5 sharps...and also in other staple repertoire that I can't remember right now. Looking back, if my first instrument had that key, I would have learned how to use it, and I'd use it today instead of double fingering everything that I would use that key for. Of course, learning to work around having only one Eb/Ab lever, while the other keys all have alternates is one of the technical challenges of the clarinet that I've enjoyed. All in all though, if you can get an instrument with that key, and learn that way from the beginning, I would encourage you to do so.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2006-03-10 11:40
buy with Eb lever
it doesn't hurt and there are circumstances where the key is needed to play certain passages. ( maybe not always evident in music where you can study all the musical lines and see beforehand where to slide with the pinky fingers etc , but certainly needed in eg irsih music played in E or B on the clarinet !! )
Also for improvised music the extra key is helpfull ==> and no intonation is NOT influenced by the key
gr
( when you get used to the extra E-flat lever , it will be dificult to play without on other instruments of course )
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-03-10 12:32
I'd agree that the extra Eb comes in handy, even for a community band player (well below the level of other posters here). Lately I've been playing a full boehm instrument. I expected to use the LH Ab/Eb a lot, but have actually used the forked Eb/Bb and low right hand Eb/Bb more. The articulated G# with the extra right hand key makes those trills a lot cleaner too.
A 19/7 or 20/7 clarinet offers some nice fingering options, but once you get use to it, switching back to a 17/6 instrument can be interesting.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-10 13:13
... though not completely impossible.
Although I do play full time on full Boehms, my old Buffet Eb clarinet is a standard 17/6 Boehm, and my Buffet bass is almost standard apart from the link fitted to the G# cup to make it close with the RH action (and a few other alterations) - as on full Boehms, oboes and saxes that all have articulated G# keys.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-10 13:43
I've played on "full Boehm" sopranos (A and Bb) for over thirty years now, and I can only reenforce the statement that you should spring for the Eb lever if you can.
• As stated above, it removes one of the major problems in Boehm fingering (the little finger sliding) by completing the duplication of the little finger keys for both hands.
• It doesn't affect intonation in any way, as it operates the same tone hole as does the RH little finger key for the same notes
• The added weight is in the neighborhood of less than half an ounce, this by postal scale and allowing for the extra post length.
• On my horns (Series 9s), at least, it doesn't get in the way at all. I still play the occasional other clarinet (Albert, "Oehler" and both Eb and C horns with standard Boehm keywork) and I have little trouble adjusting to any of them. Of course, a bit of practice helps here...
(On the Oehler horn, there is another key in roughly the same position (although for a different purpose). In fast passages, that can get confusing if you are not focused enough. I occasionally have the same problem when on sax and I get distracted or something; then it's "playing clarinet on the sax" time. Once again, practice is the key to avoiding the problem.)
Of the auxiliary mechanisms, I use them frequency-wise in this order:
Eb/Ab lever:
All of the time. Great for sight reading; no more "planning ahead" as to how to take a passage. You just use whichever alternative RLRL or LRLR feels the best. You never have to slide...never.
Articulated G#/C#:
Sax players learn to know and love this one from the start. It takes away one great altissimo fingering, but in return you get all sorts of facility in extreme sharp keys. There's no more problem with coming down on the normally closed key for this note too soon in a fast passage; the mechanism takes care of it all for you. Plus you never get water in the key hole. Take the precaution to have this one padded with close grained cork, the better to avoid a sticking pad (it's one of those "sprung against the other keywork" keys).
(By the way, these two (Eb lever, articulated C#) are present (along with the low Eb) on every modern professional quality bass clarinet made. I don't know if that says more about bass clarinet players or soprano clarinet players...)
Fork Bb/Eb:
This one I don't love, but have learned to tolerate and use on occasion. Plusses are that it equalizes the travel of the LH ring finger to the tone hole (listen carefully to "even scales" played by other players and you can notice the very slight but still present difference as that third finger takes an instant to travel the extra distance to the clarinet's body), and that it too offers another alternative in extreme key passages.
The main minus is that the small vent key connected to the mechanism can be hard to regulate and to have re-padded in a hurry. It's best to have it done in cork as well and then you can more or less forget about it from that point forward.
"Long" Bb/Eb:
This is a key that I use only once in a blue moon, but that I still value for its presence. The fact that there is another tone hole south of the one that is closed to give low E means that the scale throughout the horn's compass sounds pretty much the same. There is a difference in tone quality between clarinet C and B on even the very best of the very best horns, but with the "low Eb" key added, it goes away. You do have an extra intonation issue to address at first, but once the horn is set up right, that's no longer a problem.
Also, it adds about an ounce to the total weight (for the key) plus some unspecified amount for the weight of the extra wood. Were this same problem not also present on the A clarinet (which we use all of the time), it might be more of an issue.
Since I have an A horn (without the low Eb, by the way), I don't need the extra semi-tone to transpose parts for the orchestral clarinet on the Bb horn. (The low Eb on the bass is there for precisely that reason; I've owned "old" bass clarinets with a compass only down to low E, a relic of the earlier era when the A horn was first in use and was a bit more available.)
The only other use (a Bb to C trill) is something that I'll use once in a blue moon. Nice to have, but a minor issue.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-10 14:00
Also a Series 9 full Boehm player myself (with a set of them, even the A has the low Eb as well), I use the extra gadgets in order of preferrence:
Forked Eb/Bb - in arpeggios where C and Eb are next to each other, or Ab/Bb trills where the trill is made by trilling LH 2 only.
LH Ab/Eb to avoid sliding or if I take C with the RH accidentally and need an Eb! It's useful to have to get out of trouble, as well as being practical where certain passages demand it's use.
Articulated G# where a C#/G# (or Db/Ab) as well as altissimo F are in conjunction with any RH notes, arpeggios, trills or tremolos.
Low Eb as an alternative to throat Bb to avoid crossing the break eg. B-A# in Schumann's Fantasiestueke,
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Author: William
Date: 2006-03-10 14:37
My advice is, the more keys you have, the easier it is to play. I have played my entire career on clarinets without the extra Eb lever and spent countless hours learning to play note combinations that require gymnastic little finger combinations--that are more easily accomplished with the aid of the extra Eb. Now, I have a bass clarinet that has that extra Eb lever advantage and I absolutely love it. I wish all of my soprano clarinets had it as well. So here's the voice of experiance talking in your ear, "If you can afford it, buy it". It will make clarinetting just a little easier for you as the music gets harder.
And this same advice goes for any young clarinetist just starting out--buy clarinets that have the extra Eb lever and learn to use it from day one. Personally, I think it should become a standard key on all clarinets, student and professional--and not remain a fancy "add-on" option. And the extra low Eb/Bb RH auxilliary key also a good idea. Just another tool to make clarinetting a little easier--and what's wrong with that!!!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-10 14:53
Exactly, anything that makes the job easier is always a bonus.
The path of least resistance is the only way.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-03-10 14:58)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-03-10 15:10
All of the pro-full Boehm comments above are right on.
My left hand Eb lever (Buffet) is out of the way. Sometimes when reaching for it, I'll twist my left hand fingers off of the tone holes and squeak -but that's a personal problem.
The only downside is the rarity of these set-ups. If you have a broken instrument, you might have trouble getting around on a rental or borrowed back-up instrument. This happened to me last fall, when I had to audition a Bb version of the Waltz of the Flowers and got my fingers tangled up trying to play in 4 sharps with accidentals in the low clarion. (The passage is not difficult when properly set for A-clarinet, but I didn't have one.)
Bob Phillips
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-10 16:03
I've made sure I have a back-up full Boehm - a Leblanc LL full Boehm should my Series 9 find itself out of action for whatever reason beyond my control.
But I have an outdoor use plastic Yamaha 24 which I've added a LH Eb and LH forked Eb mechanism on the top joint, so I can avoid using my wooden clarinets in those less than suitable conditions which crop up with alarming regularity.
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Author: Mike Hancock
Date: 2006-03-10 20:06
Here's two cents from another source . . .
More years ago than I wish to recall, I played a Bass Clarinet with the LH Eb/Ab lever. In retirement, for the past several years, I have returned to formal lessons. I strongly agree with the comments above because I often find myself "looking for that extra key". I keep telling myself that I should acquire a soprano clarinet with that extra key.
Now go practice . . .
Mike hancock
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-10 21:44
I too am a bit worried about the possible loss of my full Boehm instruments. Even with care, there's always the possibility of losing them through theft or hurricane damage, and then where will I be?
One of these days I need to see what Leblanc has in the storerooms up in Kenosha. And, that'll have to be before they close up shop due to the consolidation...
(Chris, at the time I acquire the A horn, there were no "full" full Boehm Series 9s available, so I settled for one without the Eb. It's not missed that much, although you do (as a player) notice the difference between the B and the C in the clarinet register, unlike the lack of difference between those notes on the full Boehm Bb. I suppose you could say that it limits my ability to double the Ab sopranino horn one octave down...)
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Al Amir
Date: 2006-03-11 12:18
Yes, Chris of course I am referring to full Boehm with the low Eb key (right hand). That is the only kind of clarinet I don't suggest to use. I've been speaking about A clarinet because the low Eb key gives to a Bb clarinet the opportunity to play the full extention of A clarinet.
There has been some miss understanding. The key you are speaking about is the the LH Eb/Ab one, that is very usefull.
Im' playing a Leblanc basset horn, and I don't have that key. I sometimes really miss it.
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Author: MD1032
Date: 2006-03-12 02:03
I have personal experience with one of these as I was buying my R13 at Sam Ash. The guy threw 5 Buffet clarinets at me. Four were R13's, the best of which I picked as my own. The other was the unmarked $999 model that comes in a backpack and has the Eb alternate fingering. To be honest, I found the key to get in the way as I passed my left pinkey from the E/B to the F#/C# key. It was very weird feeling when pressing, but I'm assuming that would work out over time. Still, I just couldn't get over the way it got in the way all the time when I was fingering around. Keep in mind I have large hands, though.
But right now I'm playing clarinet/alto/bass clar for our upcoming school play, "Pirates of Penzance", which is an excellent operetta by the way. But as I'm playing these parts, there are definitely sections that I encounter where the Eb key is simply needed to get through it, and I have to leave out a note altogether due to the incomplete system (It's during How Beautifully Blue, which goes pretty fast). If you're going to be playing a lot of weird stuff, the Eb key might come in handy. Still, though, The R13 is the best of what I've played, so I would recommend it regardless of this missing feature. But I had a friend who had one of those fancy Tosca clarinets and though it cost him a solid $4000, he said he wasn't particularly pleased with it and I saw him again this year, but with an R13. Go figure.
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Author: D
Date: 2006-03-15 17:03
If you are perhaps going to be playing (maybe for duets with friends) parts that are in C and transposing in your head as you go along, then I strongly advocate the altEb lever. I got one myself for that reason as I found it impossible to transpose by sight and figure out my little finger switches at the same time.
Post Edited (2006-03-15 20:08)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-15 17:36
I use it more often than I realised, and I do think it's worthwhile having a clarinet with one fitted and getting used to using it.
I think it's the only extra bit of optional keywork on offer from the major brands that have rationalised things now (though Amati and some of the Italian makers will still make anything from the standard 17/6 up to 20/7 keys/rings to order).
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-03-11 13:01
>The only plastic clarinet on the market with an optional alternative Eb lever
> is the Buffet B12 - though I've only seen them listed in catalogues but never
> in real life, so you might have to order one specially.
No, it isn't so. There's a few of clarinets in the market with the 2nd Eb-lever. Amati is the manufacturer, who very often implemented it. But I own a 19/7 modell too - noname brand and rubber body. Seems to be an export version of Amati for military chapels in the 80s.?
Selmer does it optional, Yamaha a.s.o. The European pre-used market offers this feature regulary.
The seldom item is the low Eb (20/7-models) like the Amati maestro or 615/625 models. I don't know about plastic models with this feature.
The low Eb-lack: Current models don't show intonation problems anymore. They solved the low-notes-problem with a semiconical bore in the lower part.
kindly
Roman
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