 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Meri
Date: 2006-02-27 20:37
What do competitions really judge? Having put a few students through music competitions, I have thought that the people who win the competitions classes are not necessarily the people who play with the best tone, dynamic shaping, phrasing, or musical style. (though that probably should be the case!) It is often the person who picks the hardest piece, even if it is played with a poor tempo, no dynamics, and an average to mediocre sound, especially in the high register. What are some teachers thinking about having an 11-year-old doing a Grade 6 Royal Conservatory of Music Toronto when they don't have the tone or musical sensistivity? Personally I'd rather hear a moderately hard piece performed brilliantly. Especially when you have judges that don't know the particular problems of playing various instruments. (Two of my clarinet students had judges that played flute) Yet the first-place winners of many competitions would likely be commented on improving their tone in an exam--and a second-or third place performer earned an extremely high mark on an exam. (BTW, OmarHo, who is one of my students and a member of this board got a 93 on his RCM Grade 4 clarinet exam last month!)
Your thoughts?
Meri
"There is a difference between being flat and sounding in tune, and being in tune but sounding flat. The first I can live with; the second I cannot."
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-02-28 05:17
There's really no saying - every judge has their own agenda so luck plays a part as well.
One member of staff at my uni is really put off by mistakes, so my teacher suggests playing easier pieces perfectly for her. If she isn't put off by anything, there's nothing she can say!
It's the same for anyone, and tone, phrasing, and to a lesser extent style are subjective and with flautists as judges you can bet that they're looking at articulation and finger dexterity.
Oh, and and score of 93 is fantastic!
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-02-28 13:26
A professor once stated:
"I.Q. is defined as that which the IQ test measures."
You can make the analogy to music competition if you wish.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Jamies
Date: 2006-03-03 12:32
I think that if the judge plays the flute, he/she is more likely to judge on the basis of musicality than on the difficultly of the piece since he/she doesn't understand all the difficulties of playing the clarinet. But remember that this judge is a professional musician and has probably seen his/her share of clarinet playing. Also at younger ages, (14 under) there honestly usually isn't much musicality going on and usually students overblow or underblow. I have yet to seen a child play with a good tone. If there is superior musicality the judge will not ignore it.
The teacher may be trying to push the student or was pushed by the parents to make the student play that piece. Not all teachers see music in terms of grades and maybe chose it for the sake that that music is just music. Perhaps the teacher felt that music might help with musicality. I am sure that the teacher does teach the student to have a good tone but that takes time to develop.
Instead of being upset over a "loss" and who won and who didn't, read the comments from the ajudicator because they can be very helpful.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-03-03 13:42
>It is often the person who picks the hardest piece, even if it is played >with a poor tempo, no dynamics, and an average to mediocre sound, >especially in the high register. What are some teachers thinking about >having an 11-year-old doing a Grade 6 Royal Conservatory of Music >Toronto . . .
Having at one point in my life been hired as an aide in a U.S. Middle School band program, I believe I saw this "syndrome" in development. The kids were technically gifted, but of course, since they *were* middle-schoolers and not prodigies of any sort, they played rather mechanically. Many of them were speed demons, as well.
I can understand why a judge would be impressed with this, at least in the U.S. "contest" arena. The reasoning may be that, of course, the youngster doesn't demonstrate much mature nuance, but that will come. Still, the dazzling demonstration of technical prowess on a difficult piece seems to show the child's attainment to be "a cut above."
Compare that, then, to a child who is playing a more age-appropriate selection, which he/she understands and delivers impeccably. To the judge who is awed by the first kid's flying fingers, this second contestant may seem a bit pedestrian, doing just what might be expected, but nothing memorable.
I've always thought that the RCM system was less-subjective than our U.S. contest system, but that may be wishful thinking. It may still be true that the squeaky wheel will always get the grease -- that is to say, stand out from the others, whether for good or ill, and you will be noticed.
Susan
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-03-03 15:43
Meri -
Competition judges look for:
RHYTHM -- This is the first thing judges listen for and is more important than everything else combined. If a contestant's rhythm is inaccurate, all the good things go out the window. Your students need to internalize a metronome. This doesn't mean playing mechanically, but the underlying pulse must be strong and even. Speeding up in the easy passages is as bad as slowing down in the hard ones. Judges particularly downgrade for inaccurate entries after rests.
ACCURACY -- This is related to rhythm. Uneven, "rocky" running passages get downgraded. So do wide slurs that are not connected, or have a "bump" on the second note. Students learn this by slow scale and arpeggio practice.
INTONATION -- A note that's always out of tune, or sharp high notes, will get a contestant downgraded. Have your student play scales and the contest piece for you at 1/2 or 2/3 speed, listening for intonation.
TONGUING -- Rough or uneven tonguing will lose points. An accurate, light staccato is essential.
TEMPO/FAKING -- Too slow but accurate is **much** better than fast but sloppy. Have the student listen to a recording of the contest piece, and always stay near the recorded tempo. I've seen a top player -- by far the best in the contest -- lose out in the first 2 seconds by playing perfectly but much too fast. The judges picked up their pens simultaneously, to downgrade the performance.
"Faking" is playing faster than you can be accurate all the time. Students will be able to play perfectly at a slow tempo, and well at a fast tempo, but have an intermediate tempo that causes trouble. It's possible to float along above the intermediate sticking point, but this ability evaporates under the stress of the competition. You need to work with the student and a metronome, gradually increasing the tempo to the sticking point and doing the hard work to get through it.
After that, and only if everything else is in place, come tone, musicianship, communication with the audience, etc.
I hope you recorded your students' competition perforances. Go through them, first by yourself and then with your students, gently pointing out where the deductions came.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2006-03-04 01:45
Ken, thank you! I've printed this out to show my students that it's not just me telling them to play things slowly and precicely before picking up the speed! It's also a good reminder of the details we need to listen for during lessons.
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2006-03-04 23:00
Some judges do judge like that. And some band directors do as well. This girl who used to be in my class had the most HORRIBLE sound ever. She was in tune, but sounded flat. I mean it was disgusting. Our director didn't really care. He gave her just as high scores as me when I played my scales faster, better, and with a WAY better sound. And my director is a percussion major and his daughter is All-State Honors Clarinet. Rather Ironic. Then some judges at Auditions are very strict. I remember we had a turn in one of our pieces. It was Mozart something. The girl who auditioned right before me didn't play the turn(a MAJOR point in the song) and still scored a higher score than me because one of the judges wasn't focused. It's rather interesting when one judge gives you a "Superior Performance" score while the other gives you excellent or average. Happens to me alot.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-03-05 02:59
Just got back from BASSOONarama at Eastern Washington University. The master class teacher often listens to audition tapes for All State and All Northwest applicants.
She agrees with Ken Shaw: rythm is number one.
One of her colleagues, however, listens with a metronome set to the "minimum acceptable tempo." If the player is not up to tempo, he pulls the tape and tosses it out with the student.
She says that she doesn't judge tone because of the liklihood that the recording is not able to reproduce the player's actual sound --but it could be a tiebreaker.
She's forgiving of small note errors --if they don't cause the player to panic.
Bob Phillips
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Author: andyrox
Date: 2006-03-05 06:18
From experience i think everything is a factor in judging. Basic aspects in music such as tempo, accuracy in rhytm, tone, ensemble, intonation, etc.. the list goes on and on. Be musical and you get brownie points.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2006-03-05 08:01
Again, it's interesting to have a thread pointing us back to our real musical priorities.
Rhythm determines so much about a player's strength or weakness, and even a fairly pedestrian listener can smell a problem in this arena--even if they can't tell you exactly what the problem is.
Ditto for fighting the player's need to acknowledge their mistakes to the audience. Every avalanche starts with one loose rock, and it amazes me sometimes how much an excellent player will wallow in his/her error rather than try to turn it into something that they can sell to the listener.
And again, let's not forget this reality about contests and solo/ensemble festivals. These are live-fire exercises for students who are in different phases of their development. Sometimes it's a technical performance and sometimes it's a musical performance, but to me it's a toughening process in which stage nerves are brought under control, and the player becomes acclimated to performing without being distracted by the trappings of the performance.
It's got to happen sometime, and sometimes the judging is secondary in importance to the experience itself.
Allen Cole
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-03-06 23:43
If you are thinking of a career as a concert pianist (for example) and you don't have at least one or two first places in major competitions, your work to get recognised can be more of a struggle.
Unfortunately this is a fact of life.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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