 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-02-28 15:45
In this piece, the clarinet sets the tempo of the first movement after the a pompous, attention-getting introduction.
This lead-in is written as three eighth notes starting after an 1/8th rest. The three 1/8ths are followed by a quarter note; and the four note pattern is repeated three times before the rest of the ensemble enters.
MY group wants me to play an 1/8th note triplet on the following down beat, turning the 1/8 rest into a 1/4 rest.
One argument for doing this is that it makes clear the tempo we're going to use. A counter-argument is that, later, the 1/8 rest, 3-1/8s, quarter is played tutti and in strict(er) tempo.
What do you folks think of taking this "performers' license"?
Bob Phillips
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-02-28 16:43
I forget the opus number, but your description sounds like you're playing a version of the Septet for clar/horn/bassoon and strings (also arranged by Beethoven for clarinet/cello/piano).
If that's correct, and you play the eighth notes as triplets, I'm sure that Beethoven's hand will strike you down from the grave, and he'll probably take legal action and write you nasty letter too.
I played a woodwind nonet version of this last Sunday. It was wild. I expected that the first clarinet would basically play the original clarinet part, and that the oboe would play the first violin part. Boy was I wrong! This arrangement (by Druschetsky) has first clarinet playing both clarinet and violin parts - no rests and some impossible page turns, not to mention the violin cadenza in the last movement.
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2006-02-28 16:46
Why wouldn't the three 1/8 notes followed by the quarter note give them a clear indication of the tempo? The 3 1/8 notes should be enough to give the tempo, even the 1st two 1/8 notes should give the tempo.
RE:- "A counter-argument" -?? How about "It's not what B wrote" and "three 1/8 notes should be enough to give the tempo."
I don't see the reason to take the "performers' license you are describing.
Tom Piercy
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-28 20:21
I have to agree with Tom Piercy on this. Beethoven did not write a triplet there, so I can't think of a reason to justify playing one. If you give them a good cue as a downbeat, and play the three eighth notes in the same time as your cue, there's no mistaking the beat. Besides, this is a frequently recurring rhythmic motive in that movement, and if make that change once, the next occurence of that motive will sound very peculiar. Also, if you are playing the Andraud Book arrangment, I would recommend acquiring the Philadelphia Wind Quintet arrangement. The voicing is much more idiomatic for wind quintet, and also the clarinet, bassoon and horn parts are closer to the original sextet (and those octave doublings at the introduction in the Andraud book are not nearly as numerous in the original sextet this was arranged from).
A few hints that I have from my work on this piece. Don't play the introduction or the second movement too slowly. Adagio and other slow tempi weren't nearly as slow in that period as they became in the romantic and modern periods, and if you play it too slowly, it will probably lack energy and forward motion, and also, it will make it harder to play it with good ensemble. Also, use the open D fingering(if it's in tune) on the descending sixteenth note run that goes into the triplets. That section should be felt in 1, not 3, and that makes that passage even more difficult.
This is a great piece, the Philadelphia Wind Quintet's recording is available on the Boston Records Label, and it's excellent. It's also helpful to get a recording of the original sextet version for pairs of clarinets, bassoons and horns so you can compare the orchestrations.
Good luck!
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-02-28 20:40
so, it's the wind Sextet - interesting. Same general rhythm as the Septet, except the Septet has an ascending theme, while the sextet descends. Both great pieces. Perhaps a bit of self recycling by Beethoven?
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-02-28 22:03
Our quintet plays this piece, and we definitely do not play it as a triplet. In fact I think that would sound totally weird and out of character if played that way. ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
Sue
Post Edited (2006-03-01 01:26)
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2006-03-01 01:15
Is that op. 71? Op. 73 is the 5th Piano Concerto.
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Baldrick, you wouldn't recognise a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on a harpsichord singing "Subtle plans are here again". - Edmund Blackadder
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-03-01 01:23
If it's the same one we have (and it sure sounds like the same one) it is Opus 71.
Sue
Post Edited (2006-03-01 01:25)
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2006-03-02 01:36
I think that the eighth note of the intro should equal the dotted half of the allegro. There is no tempo change-both sections are played with the same pulse. Try it...you'll like it.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-03-02 04:04
Elmo,
Our transcription is marked 3/4 in the second, allegro, movement. If it were played in 2, the 3 1/8 notes would be on the second pulse of the measure --as my colleagues tend to favor.
Bob Phillips
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2006-03-03 00:45
Play the intro in 8, counting the eighth note as the beat. Play the allegro in 1, counting each measure as one beat. Use the same beat for both sections. There are three eighth note rests missing in the first bar of the allegro. Why? Look at the last bar of the first ending. When you repeat, half the bar is in the the first ending the other half is at the beginning. Since most everyone skips the repeat it is easy to overlook this detail. Also look at the last bar of the mvt. There are only 3 eighth notes so everything adds up correctly. If you take the repeat and play the first bar as a triplet it will sound very strange. You are the only one playing there-play it your way (the right way, the way it is written) if they can't pick up the tempo from your first four bars they must be totally incompetant.
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Author: clarinet50
Date: 2006-03-06 19:00
Opus 71 is the Sextet (2 cl., 2 bn, 2 hr.). There are several quintet arrangements. The one in the Southern collection is the least faithful to the original.
The Septet is Opus 20.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-03-07 00:39
OK,
(From the originator of the thread).
We got IT! We play it straight; and I believe Ludvig van rests easily under our playing.
Phew. I love the subtleties in the piece --even when I'm stuck with the "bassoon part."
Bob Phillips
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