 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-02-27 10:30
I've been playing with the Vandoren Optimum ligature for years. I chose it based on comfort (one screw, doesn't slip, etc.) but in the last few months I felt my sound is not as good as it used to be. I thought the problem was reeds (I ran out of my favorite brand and size months ago and was using other reeds since then), the mouthpiece changing (I dropped it once but looked like it is fine), the clarinet, or just me.
I never suspected it could be the ligature.
Anyway, today I had a rehearsal with an alto sax player and he had a strange ligature. I asked him and he said it is called Olegature, and that it fits clarinet too if I want to try it. I tried it and holy &*$%#!!! What a difference for the better!
Now I can't believe I could stand playing on the Optimum for so long. The Olegature has much better sound, a lot more free blowing, staccato and dynamics are much easier!
I never had a piece of equipment make such a huge difference.
I would definitely recommend trying this ligature.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-02-27 10:41
If you think the Olegature is good, you should try and REAL ligature!
Ever tried the (cheap!!!) Bonade?
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-27 10:46
Interesting - looks like a flexible (but not stretchy) metal strap - like a watch strap. Is that right? I can see how a stiff but conformal system like that could have unusual properties.
It's funny how established habits change over the years, and new equipment suddenly becomes appealing.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-02-27 11:11
Moriggan, I don't know the REAL ligature, do you have a link for it?
We pretty much only have Vandoren and BG ligatures here. We don't have the Bonade either so I never really got to try many ligatures.
We actually have the Olegature but it costs three times more than in the USA.
Bassie you are right it is a lot like a watch strap. I'm not sure what you mean by 'unusual properties'. Imo there was nothing unusual in the Olegature and it was very normal. If anything was unusual it's the Optimum which had unusual bad properties compared with the Olegature.
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2006-02-27 11:19
I tried two different Bonade inverted and both slide forward off the mouthpeice....very annoying
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-27 11:40
Well, clarnibass, the two kinds I've tried are (a) stretchy rubber / fabric, which grips the reed gently over a large area, and (b) metal, which grips the reed firmly at a few points / lines. There are also sprung metal ligs, I believe, but I haven't tried them. This 'olegature' looks like it grips the reed firmly over a uniform contact - hence, interesting.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-27 12:04
For those with deeper pockets ($) the Spriggs ligature is quite similar to the Bonade ligature, but without the annoying adjustments needed to make it function as it was intended.
It's too bad that Leblanc gives such little effort into making such a potentially excellent ligature...GBK
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-02-27 12:38
I searched and read some threads on the Olegature. I have a few questions. The Olegature the alto sax player had was silver and it was model S1 for Bb clarinet. I read sometimes it will be gold and slightly bigger. Does anyone know wher eI can order from that will make sure it is the silver one?
I think Oleg don't make a bass clarinet ligature, but I'm wondering if any of the saxophone ligatures will work on bass clarinet. Does anyone have an idea?
Thanks.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-02-27 12:54
Hi GBK -
Any secrets to keeping the Spriggs in place when switching quickly between Bb and A clar. (other than having used Dr. Slick very recently)?
With a very light tightening, I have to hold the mthpc oh so perfectly in order to not move the lig. I would like to try mine more than I've been able except for this one thing.
The Bonades are so disappointing. LeBlanc really needs to get their act together as their distributor. The Eb Bonade inverted is wonderful too. The whole quality control problem reflects badly on the Bonade name IMO. If people only knew - in many cases - what they were missing.
In the case of the Optimum Eb: with the amount of Eb that I have been playing lately, I find that the added security and "trueness" that it gives the reed/mthpc combination a decided edge over the Bonade Eb lig...although the sound of the Bonade is still an ideal...even though it barely fits my cut off V12 3.5 Bb reeds.
Sir Georg Solti exclaiming from the podium "Safety first my dears!" comes to mind in this case!
Gregory Smith
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-27 13:04
Greg,
You have correctly pointed out one of the problems with the Spriggs ligature - it often slips out of position when changing mouthpieces between instruments.
I have also wrestled with this problem and found that a few strips of (paper) masking tape at the contact points around the mouthpiece, give a slightly better grip to the ligature.
Of course, keeping the mouthpiece cork freshly greased certainly doesn't hurt.
Although you could do what I frequently do - and use two different mouthpieces ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-02-27 13:49
There are a few problems with the olegature. Number one is that it marks up the mouthpiece, not just on top, but also on the sides. They are hard to adjust, and the screws are small. They use to be all over Ebay for under $29.
Most of the time I use the FL ultimate ligature (check the threads by John Moses). It is like the Spriggs in that it moves when switching mouthpieces.
I think one of the more underated is the vandoren with the little dimples on it. It is under $20, plays well and does not move when switching mouthpieces.
....Jim
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-02-27 14:04
I play with the Olegature almost all the time, and I solved tghe marking by putting mouthpiece patches on tyhe mouthpiece, it also helps the ligature to stay in place when switching instrument. I find it is the best compromise between fabric ligs and metal ligs.
I also like the Peter Spriggs very much, but it really does not stay in place when switching instrument, so I gave up on it.
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-02-27 15:15
I've recently switched to the Pyne string ligature and am enjoying it. It gives me more flexibility than using the BG Super Revelation that I used for about 5 years. Tone is better, too. So, whatever works!
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Author: William
Date: 2006-02-27 15:15
Ligatures, ligatures........yikes!! There more ligs I have tried over the years, the more I think that they are just temporary fixes, and eventually--like with mouthpieces--the newness wears off and your own "sound" returns. I admit to being addicted to the "G.A.S." syndrome and will most likely continue to try anything new I can get my hands on, however, I truely believe that where it's really at is in learning to play the equipement and not let the equipement play you. Olegatures look nice and if they work well for you, great. However, "better than" brand X, Y, or Z--I remain skeptical (but forever gullable).
FYI: G.A.S. ( earlier thread def: "gear acquition syndrome")
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-02-27 15:51
William, actually the only thing I didn't like about the Olegature is how it looks. I usually try to avoid equipment that will attract attention, but I'd prefer something that works good.
I agree with you that sometimes there is a 'newness' feeling and it wears off, but that wasn't the case here. There was something wrong with the Optimum ligature I was using. I don't know if it's a problem with mine, the plate I use, or something with all Optimums when used with my mouthpiece/clarinet/reed or just me, it could be anything.
The fact is I felt a huge improvements, and both the alto sax player and the singer/composer who were in the room imedialtey heard a huge improvement too. The sound was suddenly much more open and the articulation much easier. Same feeling as changing from the worst reed possible to a very good one.
Just now I tried a few old ligatures I have and also tried a shoe lace and everything is much better than the Optimum. It is like the Optimum is doing something to ruin the sound on purpose. I know it sounds strange since many great players use the Optimum with good results but that's how it is for me.
I'd have to try the Olegature again since I only played it for about a minute, but now my temporary ligature will be the shoe lace.
Maybe everyone missed my questions or they simply don't know, but is there an Olegature model that would fit a bass clarinet?
Thanks.
Post Edited (2006-02-27 15:56)
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2006-02-27 16:01
Two Ligatures to try that are really amazing. The Brancher Inverted ligature in Silver or Gold or the Robert Vinson "equa-tone" ligature. IMO, these are the best playing ligatures on the market and both are very cheap. They remind me of Bonade's but they have crisper response and more reed vibration. Tis is just my opinion but they are worth trying!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-02-27 16:56
I used an Olegature for a while, but found it was too much trouble. Oleg himself says that minor changes in tightening the front and rear screws make a big difference, and I could never find exactly the right position.
Also, as seafaris points out, the screw heads are small and painful to tighten up as much as the ligature requires.
When you get it just right, though, it's excellent.
Ken Shaw
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-27 17:13
clarnibass wrote:
> I usually try to avoid equipment that will attract attention
> but now my temporary ligature will be the shoe lace.
Yeah...there is nothing less attention drawing than using a shoestring ligature ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif) ...GBK
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-02-27 17:16
re Bonade Ligature
i believe that the "Adjustments" that GBK refer to involve bending the ligature near the reed contact strips so that only those strips are in contact with the reed. This makes a huge difference to the workings of this particular design. I've often thought it would be good if someone could make an article (online or in the Clarinet) with photographs demonstrating this, as many musicians who have not come in contact with this "tradition" are unaware of the difference this makes to the ligature.
The genius of the Spriggs ligature is that the contact strips will adjust to any different profile that the butt of the reed may have (hence, "floating rails"). But yes, it can be tricky for quick instrument swaps. This is also the problem i have with.... string.
donald
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-27 17:24
donald wrote:
> re Bonade Ligature
> i believe that the "Adjustments" that GBK refer to involve
> bending the ligature near the reed contact strips so that only
> those strips are in contact with the reed.
Yes...most EVERY Bonade ligature needs to be adjusted so it works in the manner which it was designed.
Ken Shaw posted a nice verbal step-by-step of the procedure here:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=98160&t=97961
...GBK
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-02-27 19:07
GBK I meant I will ignore this "rule" I have and use the shoe lace since it is so much better. Also I basically meant expensive things.
Post Edited (2006-02-28 04:58)
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-02-27 20:04
clarnibass,
You said "everything is much better than the Optimum". Does that mean you have tried all three inserts with the same results? And nothing else (reed, mouthpiece, phase of the moon, etc.) was changed at the same time?
All ligatures do for me is keep the reed on the mouthpiece. Old pictures of great clarinet players (Shaw comes to mind) clearly show the two screw type, like what came with my clarinets as original equipment, leading me to think that ligatures may be overrated in importance. And it's difficult to beat the Optimum's single screw when you need to change reeds quickly.
But if olegature works for you, that's what really matters.
Hans
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-02-27 20:10
Ryan25 - I've used the Brancher and just ordered my own the other day - they are a monster of a lig, giving a massive sound! I'm going to see how it goes in orchestra... hehee!
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2006-02-27 20:54
Clarnibass -
I haven't found an Olegature for Bass Clarinet, but if you were able to find one for Bari Sax it may fit... For my ligature swapping I can trade my alto clarinet ligs with tenor sax ligs so maybe it would go Bari to Bass. I haven't tried it though so don't take that for fact.
I think buying a sax ligature would get you the brass colored one - to get a silver one you'd need to buy a clarinet one.
Michelle
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-02-28 04:52
Michelle thanks for your answers.
Hans, yes the reed, mouthpiece and clarinet were the same while I changed ligatures. As I said, it was just like the Optimum ruined the sound, just the same as playing a really terrible reed. I also agree with what you said and I chose the Optimum because it is the most comfortable imho and I never really thought a ligature could help/change my sound enough to choose one for a different reason.
I also don't remember the Optimum being this bad when I first started playing it a few years ago so I am pretty sure something wrong happened to it during that time.
I would need to try the Olegature again and compare it with the shoe lace and others. When I wrote my first post I thought it is the Olegature that made a huge improvement, but it was actually the Optimum that made a huge problem.
Morrigan - is this the metal Brancher or the soft (fabric/leather?) Brancher?
Unfortunately no one around here stocks them and I don't want to just buy it without trying it first. But if I'll be abroad again I'll try it.
Thanks again for everyone's replies.
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2006-02-28 09:10
Greg Smith - A quick note about the Spriggs. I tend to grab the whole mouthpiece and ligature as one to take it off. That way I'm holding the lig in place with my palm while my fingers and thumb are pulling. Holding it all together like that usually keeps the stupid (wonderful) thing from slipping. Also, I'm left handed, so I pull it off with the left hand, if that makes any difference.
Andres Cabrera
South Bay Wind Ensemble
www.SouthBayWinds.com
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-02-28 13:03
You can get silver-colored (nickel) saxophone ligatures through Ferree's--I think they're a sponsor here on this site. However, in a number of years of messing around with obsolete and antique mouthpieces in sizes different from the modern ones, I can't recall ever finding a metal saxophone ligature that would fit on a clarinet mouthpiece of any vintage. The shape is just enough different that the combination doesn't work.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2006-02-28 14:16
Tried an Olegature lig yesterday- as has been previously reported, it was difficult to position, scratched the top of my mouthpiece and slipped off easily. After considerable fiddling to optimize reed placement, I concluded it did not sound better than my usual Rovner Dark lig, which was much easier to use. And much less expensive. I'll stay with the Rovner.
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