 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-18 06:08
Who would have been principal clarinettist under Munch?
I'm hazarding a guess the recording of Dvorak's 'Cello Concerto was done in the late '50s - mid '60s, the 'cello soloist was Piatigorsky on this recording, but that's all the info I have.
It's just that I think this clarinet sound and playing is up there with the best, and wonder if the clarinettist in question has made solo recordings which are still on sale now - I reckon several clarinet players I know ought to have a listen to him to hear what a clarinet really sounds like.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-18 08:14
That was probably Gino Cioffi, he was the principal clarinet from 1950 to 1970. Anything he recorded as a soloist is only around on LP, so you'll have to hunt.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-18 09:13
Cheers Christopher,
Now the next question is - is his surname pronounced with a 'Ch' (Tsch/Tch/Ч) or a 'K' at the beginning?
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-18 11:01
I completed my undergraduate degree in Boston, and from the accounts of the musicians up there it's pronounced with a 'Ch'. Also, you can see him play on the recently released DVDs of VAI from the 1960's. Something you'll note is he uses a Crystal mouthpiece, and he also used a double lip embouchure. I remember some of the tales about him, he was very interested in the improvement of clarinets, and took it upon himself to modify a number of them. Unfortunately he was not so good at it and ruined a number of fine instruments. Also, in order to cut his losses, he then proceeded to force his students to buy them... I also remember he was reputed to use very soft reeds, and he and Peter Hadcock(the Eb clarinet player for much of his tenure) would trade the ones they didn't like, Hadcock would get the ones that were too hard and Cioffi would get the soft ones. Hadcock used to joke about Cioffi selling the unsuitable ones to his students. He was a great player though. I also remember an amusing anecdote that Doriot Anthony Dwyer, the first flutist during much of his tenure, once told me. When they were holding auditions for the principal clarinet position back around 1950, he played the excerpts from Daphnis and Chloe, and it was fantastic. After he completed the excerpt, (there were no screens evidently), he said "Pretty good, eh?" He must have been quite character. I remember one other thing, the only solo recording I've heard referred to is one of the Brahms clarinet sonatas, which is actually not reputed to be very good, I think someone said it's quite out of tune. I haven't heard it myself though, so that's merely hearsay. Incidentally, if you can choose to study anywhere, go to Boston, I had the time of my life there, and I regret leaving.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-18 11:34
Hey Chris,
Who was your teacher in Beantown? I tried but failed to make any contact with Julie Vaverka and wound up taking some lessons with Bill Wrzesian (nice guy).
............Paul Aviles
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-18 11:58
I studied with Ian Greitzer from the Pops Esplanade Orchestra and Ken Radnofsky. It's not surprising that you couldn't get a hold of Julie, she has a reputation for being difficult to reach sometimes. She also taught at the Boston Conservatory(which is where I graduated from), and I had several classes with her. She's a fantastic teacher, especially with orchestral repertoire, and probably the most accurate accounts of Harold Wright and his teachings come from her. They had a very extended affair up until his death, and this is common knowledge in most circles. I found that out when I was studying in Washington, DC, and I mentioned her name. My teacher said something like, that name sounds familiar, wasn't that Harold Wright's girlfriend? This is particularly interesting as Wright made one of his only exceptions with her, he almost never taught women. He said "You're just going to go get married." Which band are you at?
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-02-18 13:06
The one LP (vinyl) that I had of Cioffi doing quitents, etc. was produced as a gratis gift "back in the day" when drug companies would include a classy come-on with adv. literature for products. The vinyl was cheaply made and warped, so it is not fit for duplication nor casual playing. BUT the sound of his clarinet was fantastic. As far as intonation goes.....it is hard to separate the wah-wah sound of the disk warpage from the actual pitch. Too bad.
FWIW the product (a sleeping pill I think) became an abused drug on campuses, and is now rarely prescribed.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-02-18 13:49
Gino Cioffi was a remarkable player, and quite underrated today. He was a gigantic man (over 300 lb.) with a technique, tone, personality and ego to match. He had enormous power and could effortlessly dominate a large ensemble, even of Boston Symphony players, yet he could also play with the utmost delicacy.
Sherman Friedland was a student and has many postings on his site that mention Cioffi. See http://blog.petemoss.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=4&search=cioffi
See also http://web.archive.org/web/20030125094636/www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Friedland/Article013.html
and http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1996/03/000793.txt
In addition to the Boston Symphony recordings -- for example, the Tchaikovsky 5th with Munch, recorded in 1958, which at least used to be available on RCA CD 09026-61893-2 and I think is now on http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000003FLY/qid=1140273640/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-5715755-6468653?s=classical&v=glance&n=5174 , he played on a number of chamber music LPs on the old Boston label, including a wonderful woodwind quintet disk with the Boston principals and an even better disk of Richard Strauss serenades for winds. He also recorded the Brahms Sonata #2, but it's painfully out of tune, and his gigantic orchestral tone is too inflexible for this music.
The Boston Symphony recordings from the 1950s and 60s (under Monteux and Munch) are worth seeking out, both to hear Cioffi and the other superb wind players and for general excellence of orchestral playing.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-02-18 14:12
Alseg -
My father was a doctor and got a similar disk from Phizer. It was also issued on the Boston label and contained Richard Strauss serenades for winds. There was also a second Phizer/Boston LP with a very fine Dvorak Serenade for Winds and a good performance of the extremely boring Thuille Sextet for piano and winds.
There was a quintet LP on the Boston label, but I've never seen it as Phizer premium.
I picked up all the Boston Chamber Players LPs for, as I recall, 99¢ each, back when they were cut out. The playing is amazing -- by far the best versions of the Strauss serenades and a rootin' tootin' Reicha Quintet that has to be heard to be believed.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-02-18 14:52
I will dig up the disk from my "archives."
I think the drug was methaquaalone (quaaludes or "ludes"). Perhaps the reproduction crew sampled some product when pressing the platter. I got it from a psychiatrist while I was a med student rotating through a mandatory service.
{I dohnt rekall eff she gived me eny samplezzzzzzz.zzzz}
disclaimer....I don't do drugs, kiddies, the above is a sic(sic) joke.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-18 16:06
I'm currently in the Ground Forces Band soon to be named something else. Life goes on.
Julie and Harold???? Who knew?
............Paul Aviles
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-02-18 18:24
Erich Leinsdorf, in his book "Cadenza" has some rather pithy (pardon my lithp) comments about Cioffi's playing and musicianship.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-18 18:47
I've been trawling the archives and Cioffi has certainly won over many on here, myself included, and there's plnty to read up on.
Maybe I might go back to using a crystal mouthpiece one day, and nice to know he was a Selmer player as well.
And I'll definitely be on the lookout for recordings.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-02-18 19:19
Has anyone heard of Charles Rudd? A friend of mine had him for a teacher over 50 years ago. He tells me Charles used to play with the Boston Symphony, I would assume he was not the principal though because I cannot seem to find anything about him on the internet. My friend (a fellow community band member) says he ended up in the San Francisco Bay area. Just curious.
Sue
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-02-19 14:24
50 years ago I used to follow the personnel affairs of the major orchestras very assidously--I was a major wannabe! The BSO clarinet section in the 40's consisted of Polatschek, Valerio, Cardillo and Mazzeo, When Polatschek retired in 1950 his place was taken by Cioffi. Mazzeo was followed by Phil Viscuglia in the mid-60's. Harold Wright arrived in 1970.
No bloody Rudds anywhere there.
In the pre-internet era resume stuffing was a widely practiced art. When I met a clarinetist from South Carolina some years ago after a NSO concert that I played, he asked me when I had replaced his teacher Randy T_______ as bass clarinetist of the Symphony. When I politely told him that there had never been a Randy T. in the orchestra, he disbelieved me:
it said in his teacher's bio in the college catalog that he was the former bass clarinetist of the National Symphony in Washington DC!
Post Edited (2006-02-19 20:52)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-02-19 14:32
Hi,
Mazzeo did retire to Carmel, CA and that may be the BSO person that went to the SF Bay area.
HRL
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2006-02-19 15:36
>"and a rootin' tootin' Reicha Quintet that has to be heard to be believed."
Hey Ken, which Quintet are you referring to?
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2006-02-19 20:32
Paul Aviles:
I just had to respond to your comment about Bill Wrzesian. I studied with him at University of Lowell (now UMass Lowell), which obviously was quite a while ago. A great clarinetist, and quite the interesting fellow as well.
Sue Tansey
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-02-20 01:03
Chris -
At a master class many years ago, Cioffi said that his crystal mouthpiece was "given to me by my poor dead father." He had it duplicated for his students, but I don't think the one he played was a Selmer or a GG. He did play Selmer clarinets, though -- semi-full Boehms (with everything but the low Eb), which he said were custom-made, hand-made for him.
Bob -
The Reicha quintet on the Boston LP is Op. 88 #2 in Eb. It's the one that's played most often, with a big bassoon solo at the beginning and an even bigger clarinet solo at the end.
The available editions are heavily cut. The original is about twice as long, with additional themes and a big fugue in the first movement.
Ken Shaw
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2006-02-21 19:01
I studied with Harold Wright for about 4 years and he spoke very highly of the sound Cioffi produced which was incredibly deep and rich. Wright also said it wouldn't matter what kind of "setup" Mr. Cioffi played on because his technique was so formidable.
I will also hasten to add the Boston Symphony while sounding great today does not have anywhere near the character of these older school players gave to this orchestra. Rich luxuriant sound and wonderful intonation set the Boston Symphony head above any other orchestra on the whole continent for years. In fact, the orchestra still retains alot of these characteristics but one has to hear Charles Munch and the Boston Sym in Ravel's Daphine et Chloe to realize just how spectactular this band was!
There was an old lp of the Hindemith Wind Quintet which he was on which was absolutely first rate...being a traditional school player never affected Cioffi like so many others..in fact his solos in the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra under Leinsdorf are superb...
I also remember Harold Wright telling me Cioffi could cut through an orchestra like a KNIFE and yet still sound superb...Cioffi souinds great on all the records I have....
Also does anyone out there know who was the English horn player in the 80's and 70s in Boston...I heard a great Swan of Tounela as a student in Boston in the mid 80's and can't remember the name...it was very nice!
David Dow
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-02-21 20:35
BSO English horn player in the 70's and 80's was Laurence Thorstenberg; an alumnus (like myself) of the US Army Field Band.
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