 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nes
Date: 2006-02-12 02:04
Okay so to support the soft notes, it is wise to push? So what does the pushing do? Does it increase the pressure or what is the reason we push?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-02-12 02:21
When trying to "support," many people perform the Valsalva Maneuver, which is pushing down the abdominal area, below the navel. This is the same movement we make when defecating, and which women make in labor.
The Valsalva Maneuver is very slow and involves large muscles. It's exactly what you **don't** want to do. For much more, use the search function to look for "Arnold Jacobs" (the great tuba player of the Chicago Symphony), who spoke about the problem.
Tony Pay defines support as balancing inhaling effort (with the diaphragm) against exhaling effort (pushing up from the abdomen). Search on "magic decrescendo" for more (both here and on the Klarinet list). Tony says that this supports the column of air and lets you modulate the pressure with some subtlty. It's not easy to learn, because the diaphragm is not under conscious control and has no nerves to give conscious feedback about what it's doing.
Ken Shaw
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-02-12 02:40
"This is the same movement we make when defecating, and which women make in labor."
Ken: one analogy would have been enough; women also defecate.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-02-12 05:02
Ken, what you write seems to suggest that the diaphragm is a muscle which can push up, compressing the lungs, in order to apply more pressure to the air. Perhpas you did not mean that.
To clarify, this is not the case. The diaphragm, can only tighten or relax. When it tightens, we INhale. When it relaxes (unless it is countered by other forces invoked by holding one's breath) it returns to its relaxed dome shape more or less horizontally below the lungs. Although this ALLOWS air to leave the lungs, it puts almost nil pressure into that air. It cannot blow out air under pressure, as is required for clarinet playing. We can blow out air under pressure basically two ways. Both methods attempt to compress the lung area, hence forcing air out of the lungs.
One is to tighten intercostal (i.e. between-the-rip) muscles, to draw the ribs together and reduce the chest cavity.
The other is to tighten (i.e. flatten) the abdominal muscles. These are the ones across the front of the soft part of the tummy. (Some people, especially the unfit and overweight, seldom use these muscles to any extent, hence the always-distended abdomen). When these muscles are tightened, this exerts pressure on the intestines. The intestines consist largely of solid and fluid matter so they cannot be compressed, so they transfer this pressure under the diaphragm. Unless this pressure is COUNTERED by tightening the diaphragm (as MAY be employed for vibrato, or defecation and similar exertions), the PASSIVE diaphragm in turn transfers this pressure on to the lung area, hence forcing air out.
In neither case does the diaphragm actively participate in blowing air out under pressure.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pip.eastop/html/breath.htm
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-02-12 05:06
"How does the push help?"
Getting the reed and air column vibrating needs energy. This is provided by three means, air speed air flow, and air pressure.
For a good tone for any particular note, at a particular volume, the player employs a suitable balance of these.
Without suitable pressure in the air, the pitch is out of control, the volume is soft, and the tone is 'wussy', diffident.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-12 13:51
Ok, now you're all confusing me. The AIR is what is pushed up, not the diaphragm, we know that. However, when I am not actively engaging whatever muscle I'm engaging (Valsalva Maneauver?) then the tone, no matter what dynamic, becomes MUCH less full, much less true to pitch, and non-projecting.
Are you sure we're talking about the same Arnold Jacobs? I don't have my copy of "Song and Wind" handy but the guys he worked with for years breathed with "bellys out."
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-02-12 15:14
Ken Shaw wrote:
>> Tony says that this supports the column of air and lets you modulate the pressure with some subtlety. It's not easy to learn, because the diaphragm is not under conscious control and has no nerves to give conscious feedback about what it's doing.>>
I'd rather say, Ken, that it is easy to learn, provided that you understand the situation, and don't try to feel as though you're doing anything.
(We are inveterate 'doers', of course.)
I read Arnold Jacobs' article a few years ago, and though I have no reason to doubt that he well deserves his massive reputation as a tuba player, I found that what he had to say on the subject spoke very little to me as a clarinet player. Indeed, I don't even remember, now, what he said, apart from that it seemed a bit handwavy.
I will look again, though.
The thread that is the best explanation of my view on the bulletin board is:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=181794&t=181794&v=t
Tony
Post Edited (2006-02-12 15:24)
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