 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MaggieMay
Date: 2006-02-09 21:24
Hi, it's the first time I've posted.
I took up the clarinet 3 yrs ago (age 45) and am getting along fine except... when I have to play in public (exams, band, concert) when you can be sure that when I have to play a high A, out comes a squeak! It's obviously stress, it never happens any other time and only on this note! Have you any advice how to cope with this?
Thanks (I live in France, I love reading this board)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-09 21:37
Which high A?
A5 - one ledger line above the staff, or A6 - 4 ledger lines above the staff.
For A5, possible causes of the problem could be:
1. airflow not fast enough (high tongue position)
2. improper diaphragm support
3. tension in the throat
4. improper embouchure development
5. incorrect mouthpiece/reed resistance
6. incorrect register vent tube size
For A6, make sure you are fingering the note correctly, with the pinky on the F#/C# key.
For additional resonance and to make the A6 speak with less difficulty, you can also add the lower right hand Eb/Bb key ...GBK
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-10 00:14
My favorite A5 problem is a bad/leaky pad (the cup between LH fingers one and two). A side bar to this is poor second finger ring height adjustment, either too low (not closing pad) or too high (finger not really closing hole). Solution.....judicious bending.......sh!!!!!! .......don't tell anyone I suggested "bending."
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-10 15:13
I wish more people would suggest bending keys - I always bend keys around to get the ventings where I want them (and to align keys as well) the best way to reglate the long Bb is bending the upper connection, but without using pliers as they'll mark the key.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-10 17:13
Well, you can always swaddle the business end of the pliers with a cotton cloth. ........that is, if you were a "bender."
There are repairmen who wince at the notion, suggesting that all correct adjustments should be made with the delicate use of different sized pads, corks etc. For the most part clarinet keywork will stand a lot of stress, HOWEVER, there had been many CHEAP clarinets of the past whose keys were made of "pot metal" and instead of taking on the new shape, they would snap. I am not sure of the type of keywork of the neveau cheap clarinets from China that are on "the list" but it may be helpful to find out before attempting a quick fix on something other than a "branded" axe.
..................Paul Aviles
P.S. I don't think there is a choice with respect to the RH alternates of the
top of the line Leblancs or the silver plated R13s. The keys fade out
of adjustment so fast, they would be "in the shop" more than in my
face if I didn't continually nudge the keys back into shape every couple
of weeks.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-02-10 17:46
Key bending is common practice in every shop I've ever been to - every tech I know bends keys. Does anyone believe it'll get fixed by just lookin' at it? --- I've never tried putting one under a pyrimid... (maybe, just maybe...  )
- ron b -
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-13 08:55
Indeed, some alloys will not bend (ping - oops). And some modern power-forged keywork can be very difficult. But bending is possible. I bent almost everything on my cheap Selmer USA Bass (with light pressure from my fingertips :-D) - works just fine now.
Friend of mine describes a harrowing visit to the Buffet factory. Lines of workers, all adjusting R13 / RC keywork with... *hammers* ...
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-02-13 09:44
Paul Aviles wrote:
P.S. I don't think there is a choice with respect to the RH alternates of the
top of the line Leblancs or the silver plated R13s. The keys fade out
of adjustment so fast, they would be "in the shop" more than in my
face if I didn't continually nudge the keys back into shape every couple
of weeks.
Thanks Paul, you have salved my conscience. Though for me the problem is the LH fingerings, especially the middle Bnatural. It happens again and again that it won't play, and all that's needed is to bend downwards the pad that closes for Cnatural.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-13 10:05
I'd shy away from *repeated* bending, by the way... Paul / David, can you not put some shim in the link between the B-key and the C-pad to help it close? (assuming I understand the problem correctly)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-13 11:18
Dear Bassie,
The problem is that the metal will continue to "give" in that direction. This is NOT a problem with nickel R13s or Silver plated Selmers (that I've owned in years past) or even Boosey 1010s. I believe it is the combination of the keywork being brought down to its lowest possible thickness of durability (save $$) by Buffet and the more "bend-and-stay" characteristic of silver.
...........Paul Aviles
P.S. I've asked some old timer repairmen about this and they don't know what I'm taking about. I think this is a relatively new problem....except for Leblanc :-)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-13 11:58
Paul -
Ouch! Major custom mod time! Is this on every instrument, or are there just a few that haven't (perhaps) had the right 'temper'?
I suspect that the key will eventually toughen up, if it's bent often enough. It's called 'work-hardening'. Just have to hope that happens before the 'ping' sound of work-hardening's arch-nemesis, 'low-cycle fatigue'...
I have noticed that on my instrument (Selmer player here), wherever there are cork pads in the key linkages (e.g. between LH thumb and LH 1st finger rings), these will slowly collapse with time, leaving surplus play in the mechanism. On some of the critical clearances (e.g. B/E key link to C/F key), however, there are these little rubber disks that seem to do a bit better.
My main problem at the moment is that when the wood swells, some of the rings bind on the tone-hole chimneys. It's a real pain when, deep into a long set, all of a sudden the RH rings stick down and every B and E is flat :-D
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-13 15:43
Wow !!!
This could be a whole new thread. The cork you mention at the thumb is MY nemisis!!! I have it removed post haste and have either a similarly shaped shim of teflon put in or a better, a button of teflon (you get a little clicking but no binding at all quick quick quick). Brannen was doing that years ago (I hope the shop continues this practice). I heartily endorse the black foam rubber for the RH linkages - lasts MUCH longer.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2006-02-13 16:00
Maggie:
This is a long shot and it is probably one of the issues listed above but I had a a problem with A5 being unstable. That was the only note and after much fooling around looking for the cause, it turns out is was a warped MP. Replaced the MP, problem gone.
Best
Rick
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-02-13 19:00
"It's called 'work-hardening'"....you're so right,Bassie.....but the metal isn't "tougher" even though its yield strength increases. What will happen,however, is that the next time "the amateur bender" goes to bend the same key in the same spot....it will bend a short distance from the first bend area. Nickel silver seems to be quite forgiving ...but the plating isn't. The bad news is that the amateur bender gets overconfident which results in good news for the pro technician's business.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2006-02-14 00:07
I don't know the specifics of everyone's instrument or playing style but I would like to say that I play quite often as a freelancer in San Francisco bay area orchestras and I have never had these types of problems with my keys. Is it possible that to much force is being used on the keys or care is not being taken when putting the instrument together. I'm not trying to attack anyone and I don't play as much as a professional with a gig ( well I do practice every day) but I find it strange that someone would need to bend there keys every couple of weeks to keep things tight?
Why does this happen for so many of you?
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-14 07:47
BobD -
Mea culpa! 'Tougher', indeed. I should know better! Stronger, yes, but not tougher. Embrittled, in fact.
And you're right about bending at a different place - to an extent. A clarinet key will preferentially bend where the stress is highest - in the middle, or where the metal is thinnest.
Stainless steel illustrates work-hardening nicely. Ever bent a stainless knife? You can never get it quite flat again... the bent bit becomes very difficult very quickly, and you tend to end up with a knife with an 'S' bend in it. If you've ever taken a hacksaw to stainless, you'll have noticed the same phenomenon working against you. I'm not so sure of the properties of keywork alloys (though I know hacksaws are out of the question :-D). I imagine you want something that work-hardens fairly slowly.
Over-confidence is right. Softly softly catchee monkey. This is what they call 'engineer's feel' - knowing to stop turning the spanner (wrench) before the nut shears off.
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