 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: chedmanus
Date: 2006-02-05 15:58
I recently received a shipment of Backun mouthpieces to try; overall I think they are decent, not great in my book.
I am not the type of person to become caught up in the hype of a new mouthpiece, instrument, reed, etc, but the Backun mouthpieces caused such a stir in many circles of professionals whom I deal with that I couldnt resist. What sold me was the news that David Shifrin is using them, having abandoned his old faithful (and incredible) Kanter for these new pieces. Surely this was my new mouthpiece - I was sadly mistaken.
First off, I'd like to say that the level of professionalism and courtesy I received from Morrie and his staff was exceptional. They were polite, eager to please and treated me as if I was their most important customer. The ordering process was fast, they had some mouthpieces ready and shipped them with light-speed quickness. I do not like the price of the mouthpieces (too high), or the fact that you must pay for all pieces before shipment, any returns being refunded.
The mouthpieces didnt work for me very well and Morrie refunded my money promptly as promised. I received a very polite email from his staff at the end of the deal and that was that; quite a nice transaction compared with some nightmares Ive experienced with returns and other mouthpiece makers.
I tested the Shifrin model for about a week:
The mouthpieces play very easily and are in tune with a fine high register. I find the sound a bit 2 dimensional and small, boxed in and hard to voice; they have a certain restricted feeling to them. They dont possess any really great colours, if anything I had to work hard to put colour in. Dynamics were also a bit of a problem, they didnt seem to like being pushed beyond a mf or f at the most. The blanks seem ok to me, but oddly resemble and feel like a Zinner of some sort...The quality of workmanship is great, and the logo is quite clever.
I tried the mouthpieces on the job and had to switch back straight away - for me they had no volume or body of sound. I did try all sorts of reed combinations with the same result.
Overall I dont find these a remakable improvement to the other products on the market. The price is the one thing that made my decision - it just wasnt worth it to me.
It is not my intention to discourage anyone from trying the Backun mouthpieces - they are without a doubt the result of many hours of careful study, trial and error and are beautifully crafted. What doesnt work for me may work great for the next guy, and vice versa. I personally would be interested in trying Backuns mouthpieces in a few years, once they have been fine tuned a bit.
Post Edited (2006-02-05 16:26)
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Author: CPW
Date: 2006-02-05 17:04
Clever logo?
Can you show us.
I looked on the Backun website and it does not show the mouthpiece.
Will they be advertising during the superbowl?
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-02-06 03:36
thanks for commenting honestly on this- however it would have been useful if you could have given us an idea of the mouthpiece/facing you are used to playing on, and a precise description of the Backun mouthpiece.
-what facing characteristics? (tip opening + facing length)
-thickness of rails?
-flat table or concavity?
that would be really useful to give us an idea about this new product.
donald
ps- i'm still waiting for the Backun reed!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-02-06 16:22
Chedmanus -
What are you playing now? From your name, I suppose a Chedeville. What do you use as a backup?
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Author: chedmanus
Date: 2006-02-06 17:31
Ken -
I dont use Cheds anymore, sold them all.
My number 1 mouthpiece is a Kanter made from a Zinner and my backups are made by Ed Pillinger.
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2006-02-06 18:14
I sent a question to Backun about the mouthpieces. They do not show any details on their website.
They sent a list of types.
There is one that they call the " Philadelphia. "
It has the widest openning at the tip. Isn't it odd that a city associated with the use of closed tips or at least not wide open ones now has a wide one named for it that has an openning usually meant for jazz.
Morales is a fine player, but after being there less than 2 years or maybe slightly more, maybe they should call it the Principal or the Met. Just a little thought.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-02-06 20:24
Thanks for the review. It actually makes me feel a bit better that I don't own one yet.
Is this find strictly in the mouthpieces? Do you like the barrels and bells? Perhaps the mouthpieces are for use with the barrels and bells?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2006-02-07 00:04
Mouthpieces are VERY personal. You have to find what works best for you, not for someone else.
Post Edited (2008-06-08 04:53)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2008-06-07 23:40
Recently I made a mouthpiece for one of my customers. He was impressed and asked if he could send a mouthpiece to me for refacing as he needed a backup. Today I received the mouthpiece. To my surprise it's Morales/Backun L model. I never had any experience with Backun mouthpieces so I was very curious to see all this advertised science in person.
The mouthpiece is made from the Zinner blank. Besides the logo, ligature lines that go across the table and some work on the side walls the mouthpiece looked like UNTOUCHED Zinner blank. I started comparing it to the Zinner (361 A 1-) blank. The baffle is untouched. ALL measurements including the tip opening and facing turned out IDENTICAL. Where is the beef?
Vytas Krass
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Professional clarinet technician
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2008-06-08 01:34)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-06-08 00:11
Ed is so right, no me Ed but the other Ed, you know, two Eds are better then one. Ok I really didn’t say that. Anyway, One person can sound great on a mouthpiece and another sound terrible; we’re all built differently. I stock a few of the Backun mouthpieces and two of my students use them but I don’t. I use an old Morgan and I’d gladly pay a thousand dollars if I broke it to find an exact duplicate, good luck with that. When you find the “right” one it’s almost priceless. Backun, Morgan, Vandoren, Kaspar or anything else. If it’s the one, it’s worth almost anything. The hard part is finding the “right one”. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457, listen to my Mozart.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-06-08 00:27
This reply from a respected professional is valuable. I have heard other such reviews, especially concerning Zinner blanks. This makes these untouched Zinners selling as "works of a mouthpiece craftsman's art" more believable than one would have thought. I've written about my miracle mouthpiece many times: a GG crystal, -1 facing, a mouthpiece I would have not kept had my wife not said from the next room, "What's that?" I tried it again, then another time and then I never stopped playing it until an admiring fan accidentally knocked it off the chair upon which it was sitting ... my clarinet as well. Fortunes of war and of crystal.
Sherman Friedland
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-06-08 04:09
Thank you, Vytas. I appreciate you confirming what I said on this board over a year ago.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-06-08 13:49
Gui-Gui was my friend at Boston University in the late 50's,playing in the University Orchestra. I played second. He played full-boehm one-piece, placed on a small velvet cushion held on his knee. It wasn't until much later that I got 6 of his mouthpieces, for 36 bucks( total) and found the one, THE ONE. The others I sent to Rosario when he busted his own. More crystal wars
Sherman Friedland
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-06-08 14:56
Hello,
Right you are, Mr. Krass.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-06-08 18:14
Good for you, Ben Redwine. Ben will make you a fine mouthpiece. Not right "out of the box".Ben copied one of mine and it is excellent..
Sherman Friedland
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Author: Bill
Date: 2008-06-08 22:45
Wow. I'm stunned (V.K.'s comments about the Zinner).
The best mpc. I ever played was sent to me in the mail by accident (and my mouthpiece was sent to another customer). It was 48 hours of bliss. A refined altissimo and thundering, filled-out lower register. Only two in my own collection could (almost!) match it: a NOS QS Chedeville (blank) set up by Vytas and a really old Penzel-Muller (New York, not Long Island, not "Artist").
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-06-09 00:05
Stunned? Seriously? Search the archives. I've been saying similar things to anyone that wanted to listen from the very first time I examined one...and that was a long time ago. Laughable it it weren't so sad.
If you want to finance someone else's expensive CNC machines and the like, feel free! Jumping from a non Zinner mouthpiece to a Zinner mouthpiece is mostly what we're talking about. If one goes from a typically colorless Pyne - SURE! - all the colors of the rainbow are now available with the Zinner mouthpiece. Surprise! (See Morales add copy).
Consider for a moment the mouthpieces that these "converts" to Zinner mouthpieces were originally playing. *Of course* a whole new world opened up to them...regardless of the prior maker of their mouthpieces. The list of "endorsers" is at best questionable for this very reason.
This has been a case of unmitigated BS for some time. Unfortunately, the clarinet playing public has been, at best, mislead. One may be happy with their Backun mouthpiece - but it could rarely be attributed to Backun.
President Abraham Lincoln:
"It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time;
you can even fool some of the people all of the time;
but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time."
Gregory Smith
http://gregory-smith.com
Post Edited (2008-06-09 01:01)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-06-09 01:07
You mean to tell me, that given the fact that a Zinner blank from Muncy costs $52, it is not worth it to pay another $448 to get those grooves in the table?
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2008-06-09 01:20
I've been saying this about these mouthpieces for over a year now. I also find it interesting that they follow the same progression of the Vandoren tip openings. I'm not saying they are copy's.....I'm sure the curves are their own design, but I do notice the general sameness.
Thank you Vytas and Greg Smith for sheding some light on this product.
I for one am glad that the cat is out of the bag on this one.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-06-09 01:25
Hello,
Thanks for your kind words, Sherman. I do enjoy your posts and hope to meet you soon!
Greg, I don't think it's fair to describe Pyne mouthpieces as "colorless". I've heard some incredibly beautiful Pyne playing in the not too distant past, including from Mr. Morales. In fact, I would describe Zinner blanks as less colorful than Pyne mouthpieces, which is why the Zinners seem "dark"--from the high partials that are removed to achieve that "dark" sound.
No "magic bullet" will solve everyone's sound dilemma. A person's physiological make-up, chosen musical style, instrument of choice, reed of choice, etc. will determine what mouthpiece performs best for that performer. Try everything you can possibly get your hands on to make that determination for yourself.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-06-09 01:59
The Pyne mouthpieces are inherently grey, flat, and lacking in flexibility and color - and well known for it. That is why the "revelation" of a rainbow of color that Morales describes when he switches to a Zinner.
Of course Morales is freakishly capable of creating color where little or none is available to the *regular* clarinetist. Hence the *relatively* little color available to the non-Morales clarinetist.
That's the problem when one bases a line of equipment on a freakishly capable clarinetist - someone who playes an extremely unorthodox mouthpiece configuration - it simply doesn't translate to the vast majority of clarinetists - professional or otherwise.
Gregory Smith
http://gregory-smith.com
PS. With all due respect, dark is a relatively meaningless term when used to compare mouthpieces...or any kind of sound.
Post Edited (2008-06-09 02:29)
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-06-09 02:33
"I've been saying this about these mouthpieces for over a year now. I also find it interesting that they follow the same progression of the Vandoren tip openings."
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For marketing purposes perhaps. But the interior dimensions and table concavity of the Zinner mouthpiece renders the tip opening comparisons with all other mouthpieces meaningless.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Bill
Date: 2008-06-09 15:01
My being "stunned" was in reference to my perception of the importance/popularity/present role of Mr. Backun in the clarinet world. I can't afford a mouthpiece over $150 (never could) and I'm not a Zinner player (except for the fine Smith I had for a few years).
Also, um, does Mr. B. post here? Just wondering if we can expect WWIII anytime soon. I know nothing about Backun. Anything of interest to me in the world of clarinets happened before 1970.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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