 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2006-01-31 00:51
What was the top-of-the-line before the Opus/Concerto? Who was known to play on it/them?
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Author: chazman
Date: 2006-01-31 14:50
Based on my snap shot knowledge of LeBlanc history there are two models come into play. Those being the Symphony and the Dynamic 2, some might even include the LL. There have been so many outstanding player that use Leblanc’s, Arty Shaw and Pete Fountain just to name a few.
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Author: chazman
Date: 2006-01-31 14:53
Oh yes and the L7 one of my favorite, should be included as well.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-31 14:58
The LL and the LX series, including the L7. According to a Leblanc ad that I have in my files from 1960 (not too far back), Buddy DeFranco, Ralph Marterie, Gus Bivona, Pete Fountain, Rolf Kuhn and Sam Most among others played Leblancs. I'm sure there are others.
There were variations on the LL (named for Leon Leblanc), such as the Symphonie and Classic.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-01-31 15:27
Yes, [IMVHO]as Chazman says, dating back into the 1950's +, the Symphonie [Y on some?] and Dynamic models culminating in Leon's model , the LL , were their early claims to fame. The good "L" models followed, I have an L7 as well as a Dynamic 2, and their active marketing and sales continued. Now the Concerto and Opus models compete well with Selmer, Yamaha and Buffet's best, giving us much to choose from. Some SEARCHing of our archives here will provide much more info of specific nature. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-31 15:31
Attachment: Leblanc 1906.jpg (343k)
Here's an interesting photo from Leblanc's magazine, The Leblanc Bell, Winter 2000 edition featuring the 1906 Leblanc firm. Leon Leblanc is a six year old and is in the lower right corner of the photo. His parents are just behind his shoulder to his left. The magazine article, celebrating 250 years of production (at the time of the writing in 2000) says the first instruments produced were flutes, oboes and musettes, followed 30 years later by the clarinet. Very interesting looking instruments in the photo. Hope it comes in clear enough.
They apparently take their work seriously.
Post Edited (2006-01-31 15:34)
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Author: bawa
Date: 2006-01-31 16:10
Thats a great photo Brenda. Thanks for sharing.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-31 16:11
Chazman, I enjoyed reviewing the artist list again. It'd been a while. The nice thing about the list is that with a couple of exceptions they give the artist's equipment choices. Interesting combinations on some.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-01-31 16:17
TKS, Brenda, what a great pic of ?too-sober? [no smiles of pride?] Leblanc craftspeople. I'll try to promote a copy of the publication from our comm. band ass't conductor, he "owes me" for the gift of an old Conn bass cl, which he now plays so I am free to play alto cl !!! [at last]. The older boy in the pic is holding an ?8-keyed? flute much like mine, and that LONG inst in back looks like a French? bassoon, doesnt it? Great to have it in our archives ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-31 16:20
Yes, it appears to be a bassoon. There is a clarinet in the photo just below the basoon-like instrument. Very interesting, but they all look like my relatives in their 1906 photos. No one ever smiles.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-01-31 16:59
Great photo, a lot of history in those faces.
What is the instrument that little Leon is holding? Mussette? Recorder?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-01-31 17:40
B H - I'd guess its a recorder [sop?, having no keys]; my Sachs book says that musette was [both] a FR ?early? oboe [clone?] or made into a bagpipe form, ?as the chanter? The tall guy holds something like an alto [sop?] saxophone or an alto clarinet?, with curved neck? Can you help us Brenda, I'm sure its important !! TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-01-31 17:43
Instruments from the photo, recorder, wooden flute, metal flute, bassoon, clarinet, and an oboe?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-01-31 18:19
Attachment: laura_ardan.bmp (273k)
Hey, what about the L200? I seem to recall this being "heavily marketed" with little success just prior to the birth of the Concerto and the Opus. There were printed adverts in the International Clarinet Society Mag with an endorsement from Joseph Longo of the Minnesota Orchestra.
Also there is a recent pub shot of Laura Ardan holding what appears to be a Leblanc but I don't see any reference to her being a "Leblanc Artist."
What do we have to do to get the endorsement checks rolling in?????
..............Paul Aviles (Concerto)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-31 19:05
Don, I don't see a curved neck. Sorry. I've looked closely. I've never seen a mussette, so don't know, but suspect that's what Leon is holding.
The L200 is a good instrument, but Buffet's R-13 seemed to crowd it out of the marketplace. That's why Concerto and Opus came on board. People seemed to want something with offset trill keys like the R-13.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-02-01 03:56
Based on a conversation I had with Dave Surber several years ago, I have the impression that, when it was in the catalog, the Symphonie in its various incarnations has always been a top-of-the-line professional model. At other times, the L7 and its various successors (L70, L27, L200, L300) were high-end to top-of-the-line professional models. The impression, I got from him was that the Dynamic line were entry-level professional models similar in stature to the later Sonata or, perhaps, the Esprit and the LL was a basic professional model, similar in stature to Buffet's R13. That conversation was a long time ago, though, so my memory could be faulty.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-02-01 14:13
Well put - JNK, I agree to nearly 100%. Yes the earlier Classic and Dynamic models appear to be the "lower-ranking" pro models which followed the "no-name other than Leblanc" of which my elder son has one. My grandson has a Classic which also is much the same as shown in LL's patent US 1,926,489 [their "basic" [US] pat, I believe ]. The large bore Dynamics , I believe, became the Pete Fountain series, for jazz and Dixie in particular. An interesting history, keeps us guessing. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-02-01 14:20
Does anyone really know what, if any, actual design or manufacturing differences there are between the plethora of Leblanc models? Seems to to me they have a long tradition of renaming their instruments for marketing reasons, without making any substantial changes (if any) to the instrument itself. Like American automobiles of the 1950s and 1960s --- new body every year, but the same old chassis and motors year after year.
In the bass clarinet world, for example, the Leblanc "Esprit" (a relatively new 'model') is, as far as I can tell, 100% identical to the "older" Noblet instrument. I would add that the Esprit costs more than the Noblet.
Are y'all being taken in by marketing hype? Are you clarinetists gullible? Are your money and your wallet easily parted?
![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-02-01 15:00
David, that's a good question. I agree that they seem to be constantly changing their model names. However, their top-o-line models are really nice.
I agree the Dynamic was the forerunner for the Pete Fountain jazz model, and the Classic was a lesser priced professional mocel.
It may very well be that the new Esprit (which I think they are fazing out) is no better than the older Noblets in their harmony clarinets.
They really do change things around all the time. About the time we are educated about which model is what they go and introduce a whole new line-up.
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-02-01 15:44
The only thing I can add is that the Symphonie line is supposed to be rosewood, while the other top of the line Leblancs are grenadilla. David S. just overhauled my Symphonie 3, so maybe he can confirm or deny that.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-02-01 16:00
Dave - Point well taken, one way that helps me sort out improvements over the years is the co's patent activity, which of course has the problems of analysis and comparison of new models/improvements with contemporary US patents. It sure would be great to have the {expensive} ability to search older foreign patents and the newer EP's and WPI's. Our newer "good books" on clars would help as ICA articles also do. I can come up with a number of Leblanc pat #'s, but few Selmers and Yamahas, and almost never find any Buffets. Many are just under inventor's names, with only location or known names to help. Galper, Stubbins, McIntyre, Mazzeo, Pascucci et al are examples. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-02-01 16:09
Tony, I'm not sure about all the Symphonies being rosewood. I know the Symphonie VII was a rosewood model, now discontinued. I thought it was a one-time deal with the VII. I owned 2 Symphonie VIIs (one I bought for a customer when I was selling clarinets and one for myself). I didn't keep mine because it had too bright a tone and some constant adjustment problems. It was beautiful, however.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-02-01 20:18
Yes, David, you are right. I believe the Symphonie VII was Leblanc's one and only attempt at a Rosewood clarinet. Not absolutely certain because it's hard to keep up with their entire history of 256 years, but as far as I can find that 's the deal. The other Symphonies were Grenadilla.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2006-02-01 22:11
What der Spieg said...
I have SEVERAL of the topmodels badged by leBlanc over the past 30 years...
other than the auxiliary E-flat key on my Opus, and the Stubbins B-flat keys on my S-K model, they feel like they came out of the same woodpile...
They (as a family) all retain similar tonal character.
Exceptional designs include the Dynamic H and "Double L" which feel distinctly brighter and wilder than others.
FWIW - I think the Symphonie 7 is one of the most beautifully executed instruments of any stripe...
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-02-02 00:57
Yes, Synon, the Symphonie VII is one of the most beautiful clarinets--but mechanically not so. It's key-work is identical to the Opus, but the wood is not as hard as the Grenadilla and it won't stay in adjustment. I already mentioned its tone is very bright. Of course, it is a nice sound for a bright instrument. Very, very beautiful to look at. It's eye candy.
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-02-04 01:44
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> >
> They really do change things around all the time. About the
> time we are educated about which model is what they go and
> introduce a whole new line-up.
This lack of marketing smarts, for what seem to be exceptional products, probably explains why the company had to be sold to Selmer USA. The fact that the quite knowledgeable contributors to this BB cannot figure out which Leblanc model is which speaks volumes about the lack of skill in the Leblanc Marketing Department. This also shows up as an issue on the big Internet auction site where nobody seems to know which horns are pro ones and which ones are not, and when any of them were produced.
George
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-02-04 22:58
I've always seen Leblanc as a triumph of marketing over actual quality, at least as far as their sales techniques were concerned.
I've played a lot of Leblanc horns back "in the day", and I have to say that they were well enough executed. (No points to the company for the "on the body" register keys on the harmony horns, though...) I particularly enjoyed the LL horns that I've borrowed over the years.
Having said that, I (like many others) cannot sort my way through the welter of models and quality levels that Leon, Vito et Cie churned out over the years. Even in the specialist line of bass clarinets, I have to pause to think just where a particular horn fit in the pantheon of Kenosha products.
It seemed like the firm turned out a new "line" every other year. Like in the minds of many others, the professional models started blending together in my mind. Since I had a set of clarinets with which I was very satisfied, I more or less gave up worrying about what model was what, only occasionally trying out a new Leblanc horn when a section mate offered the opportunity.
I see stuff like the rounds bombes (the Leblanc round dome keys, where the pad sits in a different sort of seat) as just so much "Hey, we're different!", change for change's sake. In line trill keys? Come on!. Smooth rings instead of ridged ones? Well, they're okay but why bother.
Form over function will always be the "Leblanc difference" to me. The horns are okay (and I've heard a few good things about their defunct line of saxophones), but not out of the ordinary, and not any reason to change (particularly with that stupid bass clarinet register key they persisted in using for so very long).
Push comes to shove, there's only one compelling reason to have retained the Leblanc line: they alone of the "Big Five" carried an Ab clarinet.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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