 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LynnB
Date: 2002-03-25 16:27
Hi,
I'm looking for some music software and since I haven't tried any, I thought I'd ask your advice. I want to be able to scan a piece of music in then have the software transpose it for me and allow me to print out the new part. Or as close to this scenario as possible.
Does anyone know of software that does transposing?
Thanks,
LynnB
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Author: Tim
Date: 2002-03-25 18:06
There's two big names in music notation software. The first one is Finale 2002 which will scan and transpose music. The other is Sibelius, which I prefer, it is easier to use, but to be able to scan music you have to buy a plug-in for it. I think all the software will transpose for you, but there's some that won't scan it.
--Tim
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-25 19:22
Coda Music Technology offers four music-writing applications: Finale, Finale Allegro, Finale PrintMusic, and Finale NotePad. I have Finale NotePad 2002, and it has a stunning advantage which I appreciate greatly. It is *free*. However, NotePad will not do everything you need, as it does not include scanning capability. But what the heck -- download it and see what it does. The price is right! Finale PrintMusic can accept scanned music as well as MIDI input and lists for $69.95, much less than the full-blown Finale or Sibelius applications, and it may be all you need. If you would like to try Sibelius, you can download a partly usable trial version at no charge. Coda is at <www.codamusic.com> and Sibelius is at <www.sibelius.com>
Regards,
John
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-25 19:26
Well, seems that for me, bracketing the URLs sends 'em to the write-only memory.
Coda: www.coda.com
Sibelius: www.sibelius.com
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-03-25 19:38
I think you have to use <xxxxx>, not {brackets}
Anyway, it's worth a try...
<Coda: www.coda.com>
<Sibelius: www.sibelius.com>
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-03-25 19:41
Hmmm :
Doesn't work.
and... OOOOPS... Mark to the rescue! :]
(thanks, Mark)
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-03-25 20:33
I've tried them all, and IMHO nothing beats Noteworthy Composer for ease of use, amount of features and price.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-25 20:35
Thank you, Mark. Wondered why for me sometimes it works, sometimes it works not. Wow, what a concept. All I have to do is do it right, and it'll work. What do you know.
Regards,
John
'puter newbie (only been at 'em since 1956)
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2002-03-25 20:43
You might try SmartScore.
"Precision music scanning with fully integrated scoring & Midi sequencing", is their advertisment. "Playback, transpose and print out entire scores within minutes of scanning".
I use this program in conjunction with Finale as it does a much better (accurate) job of scanning than the scanning software included with Finale. I've been very pleased with the results from SmartScore ver. 2.0. One word of caution "garbage in....garbage out". Scanning music really requires good quality originals.
<www.smartscore.com>
Good Luck
Jeff
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2002-03-25 20:45
AAGGHH!!!
<http//www.smartscore.com>
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2002-03-25 20:46
Okay I give.
smartscore.com
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-25 21:18
It's good to have this thread - I own (yes, have paid for) three music notation packages because I do a lot of arranging and composing. My views on the Two Biggies (Finale/Sibelius) and my favourite (Mosaic):
Coda - Finale 2002 - it is, certainly, a feature packed package. I find it a little "over the top" on deatil and somewhat difficult in the learning curve department.
Sibelius - I love and and would fully change to Sibelius over Finale except that for me it (like Finale) doesn't handle "classical scores" very well indeed.
Mosaic (Mark of the Unicorn) (only available for Mac OS, unfortunately) but the easiest and most flexible and one I certainly can't live without.
Classical Orchestrations - an explanation.
I have prepared my own edition of several "classical" works - Haydn, Mozart, etc where the horns are pitched in anything BUT the key of F. Finale and Sibelius do not handle this type of instrument well at all. Mosaic - on the other hand does, and with ease.
When doing my score setup (I've got a library of them) I simply assign the Horns (or clarinets for that matter) to a "oboe" part and then change (manually) all the name to Horn, or Clarinet. Then I can simply change the key signature for the said instruments to C major - for classical horns - or to suit the clarinets.
There is no other software that enables you to move between different pitched instruments so easy. I can change my clarinets from B flat to A (or whatever) mid stream without having to assign a seperate stave for each pitch.
my two cent's worth.
diz, sydney
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-25 22:08
My last pearl of wisdown on this thread - scanning music - as a composer and arrange I say DON'T DO IT unless the music is OUT of copyright.
You are stealing - simple! No excuses. Besides - if you ARE caught and prosecuted - say good bye to your house or Porsche because the fines are BIG.
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Author: LynnB
Date: 2002-03-25 22:24
Diz, I'm glad you brought up the legalities. I was thinking about it earlier. Here's what I'm doing and maybe you could tell me if this is a problem. I have a clarinet, violin, piano trio but we're running out of music for this combo. I want to purchase music for violin, piano, and something else, then transpose the something else for clarinet. Would that still be stealing?
LynnB
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-25 22:40
Lynn - the simplest thing to do in this instance, is to contact the publisher (if the composer is still living then you cannot alter anything without written permission). If the composer is "out of copyright" - a blanket rule is 100 years after the death of the composer - assuming none of his/her hiers have extended the copyright then that composers' music might very well still be in copyright based on the edition's copyrighting.
For example - Bach's Brandenburg Concertos are way out of copyright, but Brietkopf's edition might very well still be in copyright - they are protecting their "typesetting" of Bach's music - not the actually music.
I have written to several publishers to gain permission to "make an arrangement" of modern scores - in 90% of the time, the publisher has granted me permission on the proviso that I always inform them of any performances, etc. They will also require you to make a payment (but not always) depending on the popularity of the Score.
If you are intending to make arrangements of "Music from Broadway" for example - please contact the publisher and seek permission. They can, afterall only say no - and it's likely they won't. If you do not intend making money out of your performances, they might very well waive the fee. If the publisher likes your arrangement, they are well within their rights to take control of your arrangement.
I never touch music of the 20th century - and make the 100 year rule a strict policy - if I do make an arrangement - I seek written permission.
Hope this helps - also, remember laws are different from country to country - in Australia the copyright law is 75 years - this is set to change. 100 years is a good rule of thumb.
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Author: rmk
Date: 2002-03-25 22:43
Without getting into a major Finale discussion, Diz is mistaken about the ease with which Finale handles transpositions. There is a feature called "staff styles" which is an incredibly powerful feature.
I am working on a reduction of Salome, where the Trumpets seem to change transposition every 16 measures. With a staff style for each transposition set up, this is very easy to do.
Finale, BTW is used now by Schott and Universal exclusively.
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Author: spf
Date: 2002-03-25 23:02
Noteworthy Composer. Get trial version online, try it then get the retail. Effective, and well worth the price. My 2 cents.
spf
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-25 23:29
rmk - thanks - I'll have to trawl through my Finale Manual to learn more on this feature. I do like Finale - don't get me wrong - I've paid for every (major) upgrade and currently I'm on 2002. I just, personally, find Mosaic a little easier to use.
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Author: C@p
Date: 2002-03-26 00:41
FYI
Coda.com is a Financial Web Site.
Codamusic.com is the Finale Web Site.
C@p
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-03-26 02:09
Finale has it's own little "maze" to work through. I sat down at my computer for three hours and did nothing but read the help manual and I'm still having just a little trouble. BUT... what I can do, I can do well. Finale definitely serves it's purpose.
BTW, I'm not trying to sell it.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-26 03:19
David - I agree with you - Finale certainly takes a heck of a lot of manual reading - but one of these days I'll master it, I hope.
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Author: allencole@jamschool.net
Date: 2002-03-26 09:45
I used to use Finale, but gave up on Finale 97.
If you have the money for a first-class package, Sibelius is IMO the one for PC platforms. Its main advantage over Finale is the fact that Sibelius presents you from the git-go with some type of finished product. It does not pepper you with questions and choices. You are presented with a product, and can either print it as-is, or make any alterations that you wish. I don't know how well its scanning plug-in works, but it sounds like it's sufficient for your purposes. (http://www.sibelius.com)
For something cheap that doesn't include scanning, Noteworthy Composer is a terrific program and only costs $40 to register. You can enter notes from one transposition, and easily change them to another.
As for the legality of what you propose to do, I would recommend taking Diz's comments with a grain of salt. If you have purchased music in sufficient quantity to outfit your entire group, there should be little problem in practical terms with transposing a part, and you are certainly not stealing. What sort of venues do you perform in?
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2002-03-26 10:28
Another plug for Noteworthy: It's cheap and easy to use. No manual is needed.
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Author: allencole@jamschool.net
Date: 2002-03-26 13:47
almost forgot....
http://www.noteworthycomposer.com
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-03-26 14:36
Finale 97 is a terror, but Finale 2002 is a little more user-friendly IMHO.
It seems we can talk about this one for days!!
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Author: LynnB
Date: 2002-03-26 15:15
Thanks for all the info. After reading about Finale and Sibelius, I'm choosing Sibelius. I don't want to have to fight with learning the software, especially if I'm not doing anything that complicated.
We're not performing anywhere yet but if we get the nerve, we'd like to perform at hospitals and retirement homes. The music we have now is more 20th century which probably wouldn't go over well in those audiences.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2002-03-26 16:06
I will say that the latest versions of Finale are better and easier than any previous versions. I think that many people had trouble with earlier ones, which were indeed cumbersome.I think that it is currently the best available. Sibelius has its own set of problems and learning curve. If you are afraid of the full blown Finale, try Allego, which doesn't have all of the bells and whistles and therefore is more straightforward. I keep finding people who want to do some simple things and then complain that Finale is too hard. That would be like getting high end publishing software to type a letter to grandma. Don't get more than you need. Finale does absolutely everything you could ever want and then some.
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Author: Bob Thomson
Date: 2002-03-26 17:15
Here in GB a lot of people are using the Braeburn software production Music Publisher 32, new version is Music Publisher 5. An add on from Braeburn for scanning as been a great asset to me. I use it as outlined in the original question, namely Scanning, recognising, transposing then printing. Further info - email me.
BobT
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-26 21:12
LynnB - you'll love Sibelius - it's also got a beautiful interface - which makes the whole experience delightful.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-26 21:13
Bob - do you have the URL for this software? thanks!
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Author: allencole@jamschool.net
Date: 2002-03-27 14:43
Lynn,
Your venues are the essential solution to any legal issues, although I agree that it's probably not the best audience for 20th century pieces.
Look at what you're saying you want to do, and where you want to play, I think that you can forget about copyright issues. Do what you need to do to make the music work.
Many venues, including churches, purchase ASCAP licenses and this is how royalties are paid for music performed there. I think that you're safe in what you're doing.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-01-27 02:35
Hi,
I'd like to elevate this thread and see if there are some new twists in this type of software. I plan to use just some MIDI inputs and perhaps do a little music notation work.
What's the simplest of the software programs to start with? Are there some demos to look at. Looking at the sites seems a bit overwhelming.
Thanks,
HRL
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Author: Snowy
Date: 2006-01-27 05:58
Hank and all,
How timely is this thread. I play clarinet - not all that well- in a community orch and we, at least I, are on the same search.
There is a real HEAP of public domain Beethoven, Mozart, Mendlesson, Brahms - think of it and it is probably there- at http://www.free-scores.com/centre-uk.php?CATEGORIE=240 ( in fact over 200 items in the orchestral category alone.
What we need , particularly for the pdf files- is software that can extract instrumental parts for printing., a quest that is literally giving me a sore butt.
However the search has turned up a couple of reasonably priced possibilities for these. One is "Lime" - their web page is http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/main.html. This one costs $US65. Definitely worth a look at.
The other is "Photoscore" which is available as an add on or substitute for Sibelius. More, but not desperately expensive. It is included, so I understand with Sibelius.
Some of these programmes will scan directly from the printed page or a PDF file , others need the user to do the scanning in another application and then bring the "image" file into the programme.
So, in the end I remain as confused as ever but with a little more knowledge than I had the day before yesterday.
Anyone else got any helpful hints?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-01-27 12:00
Snowy,
I am glad that you are on the same quest. I looked at the Lime site and that may be a very good and inexpensive place for me to begin. Hopefully, there will be others that will assist; the BB is a wealth of knowledge on some very arcane subjects.
In the music software arena, I do not know what I don't know as of yet. Once I figure out the basics, I can make a much more informed choice and purchase. I believe my needs to be very basic.
HRL
PS I am a late adopter in everything from golf clubs to clarinets. I use a very fine set of Tommy Armour Titanium T100 irons, a NOS Big Bertha driver, a Portnoy BP02, and a 1980s LeBlanc L200 clarinet. I usually save a bunch of money along the way.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2006-01-27 14:41
I'm the "worst" at sight reading and counting, so for several years I've been scanning music that if difficult for me to get the feel of (or count properly).
Once it's been scanned and corrected, I let the computer play it, so that I can hear the proper timing.
Over the years, I've cobbled together the sytem I'm using. I scan using an old version of SmartScore, Read the image file using ShapEye2, Save it as in XML, then import it into an old Finale (2001d) where I do the final editing, correcting. transposing, etc.
The Sharpeye2 is the most recent addition, and it definitely "reads" the music with fewer mistakes than either of the SmartScore, or Finale editions that I have.
There are probably better things out there but I have resisted spending hundreds of dollars on new software, or even upgrades since I already had the old software, and it still works for me.
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-01-27 15:12
Lilypond is a good, free alternative. As Ben points out, Mutopia has a lot of scores, and they are all in Lilypond format. It outputs PDF files, so anyone with an Acrobat reader can print them. Documentation is good, and it's not hard to use if you are familiar with programing languages. The one problem is that it doesn't support scans. However, it will take a stab at reading MIDI files. It will also output MIDI files, so you can hear what you've written. Download at http://www.lilypond.org/web/
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-01-27 15:56
Forgot to mention, it does transposition too, such as Bb to A, Bb to Eb, etc.
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Author: CK
Date: 2006-01-28 01:25
I would buy Sibelius 4 and get the full professional photo score
plug in. It can accurately scan a full orchestral score. Once you import it
into Sibelius you can easily transpose it and print it out.
If you are a student go to academicsuperstore.com where you get a
great discount on Sibelius.
Carey Kleiman
Prof of Music-Computer Music
Broward Community College
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2006-01-29 03:35
The original poster, Lynn B, asked about software that scanned music, recognized it, and then permitted transposition. Smart Score will do this, as will the Smart Score Lite built into Finale, the plugin mentioned above for Sibelius, etc. But keep in mind, as already mentioned, that the quality of the original is very important. If the original is in poor shape, the recognized version will take a lot of editing - at which point it might be faster to use the free Finale Notepad to write out the part, doing the transposition in your head.
My own experience is with Smart Score Pro 3.4 (the newest and greatest) and Finale 2006 (ditto). With clean originals Smart Score does a great job, Smart Score Lite built into Finale is poor to moderate. I've been using SS and Finale for about 3-4 years and purchase the upgrades as they become available. I think the products keep getting better and thus would take with a grain of salt some comments above about how 5 year old versions of the software work.
My suggestion - download the free trial version of Smart Score (can't print or save but otherwise it's a full working version) and see how well it does on the music you intend to use with it.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-01-29 11:48
Bennett,
Your suggestion of working with the SS free trial version is a good one. The $64 quesiton though is for a late adopter like me, perhaps 5 year-old software - bought at a deep doscount - may be just what I need. But then, I have a full version of Photoshop but use the newer and leaner Elements version all the time.
I think continued study on my part before making a purchase is needed. As I said earlier "I do not know yet what I don't know." But I get closer each day.
HRL
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The Clarinet Pages
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