 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: J B Lansing
Date: 2006-01-26 16:21
I reciently bough a Vandoren M30 series 13 mouthpiece. This is the third mouthpiece I have tried in the last few months the first was a Hite Premier which I liked except that it did not play freely above high D. Sound is smooth and reeds I found worked best were Mitchell Lurie no. 3s trimmed abit to help up high. The second was a Meyer medium face, medium opening which played best with an untrimed ML no.3. Sound was brighter with good clean highs, but it is a little too loud I think, maybe too bright. The M30 seems to play best with the trimed reeds I used with the Hite. the sound is very pleasent and smooth seems a little more resistant that the others I really like it the best except that it does not play above the High D very well at all. I am a retread and have only been playing about 6 months after not playing for 42 years so my chops are probbably not the best, but I am not sure what to do next about mouthpieces and reeds I really do like the sound of the M30 better that the Meyer, but I need to have some confidence in the High range. I am looking for advice please.
J B
Post Edited (2006-01-26 16:21)
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-01-26 17:01
I am not very familiar with the Meyer mouthpiece, but both the M30 and Hite Premier are fine mouthpieces. I hope you won't take this the wrong way but if you can;t get above high D with these mouthpieces, it is most likely coming from you not hte mouthpiece. Keep the M30 if that is what you like best and spend the money on a private lesson so that a good teacher can help you with your altissimo register.
-S
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Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2006-01-26 17:20
Congratulations on playing again after a 42 year layoff. That must be a record. (I was off for nearly 30 years.)
Many of us find that a Lurie #3 reed is too soft for the Hite or the M30.
You might try a Lurie #3 1/2 or #4 or a Vandoren #3 or #3 1/2.
Don't bite. Try using more airstream and less jaw pressure.
Let us know your results.
BTW, did you return to clarinet playing after retiring from loudspeaker manufacturing?
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Author: J B Lansing
Date: 2006-01-26 18:09
Hey! someone who recognizes the old speaker company. No, I was looking for a handle that I could remember and was born in Lansing Mich. and was an audiofile back in the tube days. Thank you for the advice. I will go back and see if I can make that work.
(Sylvain) I don't doubt I have an issue with out of practice chops, but I had no trouble with the high notes using the Meyer mouthpiece and even the Hite was ok. I had read here on the BB that the only criticizm of the Hite Premier was a weak upper register. Which is what I found also. So I was really wondering about different reeds for the M 30 or perhaps an alternate to it that would let me keep what I liked (the Tone) and improve the range. So maybe harder reeds, more supprot and less bit????
J B
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2006-01-26 19:08
J.B.
I don't know what your set up is other than mouthpieces, but I was having a similar problem until I tried a Moennig style barrel. The altissimo and upper clarion instantly became much easier for me to play. If you don't already have one, you might try Moennig (and other) barrels.
I have no idea why it did this for me, all I know is that the difference was significant and immediate.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-01-26 19:35
JB,
There are so many variables leading to poor altissimo play. A reed that is too weak or too strong, too much bite, not enough air, poor embouchure, leaks in the clarinet, etc...
One common cause with beginners is too much bite or a reed that is too soft. Try relaxing the jaw pressure as you go up and see if that frees up the reed.
But, as I said earlier, only one on one interaction with a teacher can truly help. He/she will be able to troubleshoot the problem much faster than anyone on this board can.
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-01-26 22:46
I, too have just started playing an M30 V13. Its on a Buffet R ~13 with a Muncy plastic barrel.
I'm doing this because my teacher thinks its a great tool; he plays professionally on one, and has a reputation for a great sound.
I've had the upper register problems, but mine are compounded by trying to break a 40-year habit of half holing the forfinger lift in the altissimo.
The M30 has a really, really, really, long lay (get that, its Loooooonnnnnggggg). It is almost impossible to take to much of the mouthpiece into your mouth!
Try poking the horn into your face until you choke (NO!). Have a look at the mpc/reed from the side and notice where the gap between reed and the lay first separate. Your lower lip needs to rest waaaaaayyyyy down there! Try taking in so much mpc that the horn chirps when you tongue. Then back out just a little to regain control.
Its a battle, but folks who haven't heard me play since I started adapting to the M30 turn around and look to see who's walked in to the hall with a clarinet.
I use a Vandoren V12 3-1/2 on my M30.
Keep us posted, and see my new thread "Yamaha vs Selmer" for how the horn seems to affect the M30/3-1/2 combination.
Bob Phillips
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Author: J B Lansing
Date: 2006-01-27 12:39
Thanks Bob, that is really helpful I knew this mouthpiece was very different, I just did not know why. I love the sound. I was just running into a wall up high, which is not a problem I had with the Meyer or my old Selmer HS* I was trying Vandoren V12 3s last night with some improvement. I am not shure I am up to the 3-1/2s yet. I will try your suggestions.
J B
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Author: J B Lansing
Date: 2006-01-27 16:28
Just to follow up. I tried what you suggested and it worked. I am sure I have some oooooollllllllddddd habits and I never though to change the amount of mouthpiece in my mouth. Feels a little strange but the range definately improve. Seems to project a bit more also. But with lots of control.
Thanks again
J B
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2006-01-27 18:41
The M30 facing, last I checked measured: tip 1.09. Curve: 8, 14, 25, 40.
All of these numbers indicate that the M30 facing is open, long, and the nature of the curve is fairly flat, which creates a free blowing mouthpiece, compared to a facing that is not as flat.
What this means is that the M30 does not have as much hold as many other mouthpieces on the market.
A lack of hold can cause a lack of control and or sagging intonation. Also, flatter curves can make it much more difficult to achieve a successful altissimo register, and secure response.
Flatter curves tend to reduce resistance, so a stronger reed is often a requirement to make these facings function properly.
If you have not had problems playing the high notes on other mouthpieces, but are having problems on the M30, chances are that the M30 is not the best choice for you. Your solution could be to either use a harder reed or to try a different mouthpiece.
If you like the way your M30 sounds and want to stay with Vandoren, but want something that functions better for you and your preferred reeds, Vandoren has plenty of options. You may want to try something with a less flat curve, such as the 5RV or 5RV Lyre (these two suggestions vary in tip openings: 5RV is 1.06mm and 5RV Lyre is 1.09mm, but neither of their facing’s curves are as flat as the M30). One thing to consider as well is Vandoren’s 13 series. If your M30 is a 13 series, and if you like its sound, be sure to stay with the 13 series on your other Vandoren trials.
The 13 series on all Vandoren mouthpieces is an internal design characteristic that utilizes a deeper baffle. The results of this deeper baffle produce a slower response, mellower sound and lower pitch when compared to their regular series of mouthpieces.
Please note that all the facing measurements I mention here are based on my own observations. They are not necessarily the same numbers that Vandoren claims.
One final thought, for now. Often, clarinetists overlook feel to achieve a certain sound, but the purpose of your equipment should be to help you achieve your concept with the least amount of effort. So, to that end, make sure your mouthpiece both sounds good and feels good to play.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: J B Lansing
Date: 2006-01-27 21:31
Thanks Brad,
I like having information to help me make my decisions. I recently bought a VR5 lyre on Ebay. I have not received it yet, but I will be interested in how I do with it compaired to M 30, which is a 13 88 series by the way. I would say that you characterization of the M 30 is consistant with my experience. I went to the Vandoren site and got their PDF on mouthpieces. Makes for interesting reading.
J B
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Author: glin
Date: 2006-01-28 01:02
The M30 13 series I have also plays on the 'flat' side compared to my other mouthpieces. It is more free blowing - which is tempting to keep and use. I've switched back to a Clark Fobes mpc CF+ facing, which produces a better sound IMHO.
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Author: J B Lansing
Date: 2006-01-28 15:31
I read somewhere on this board the the M 30 was designed to play at A=440 not 442. I don't know how this affects clarinets designed for 440 and 442. I am using mine on a Leblanc Sonata and don't see much difference. I wonder why? As I get use to it I find it does like harder reeds. shigh....now I have to go and restock. :-)
J B
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