 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2006-01-24 16:41
I saw a link on this site to a picture of the manuscript of this, but couldn't find it through the search function. Could anyone help me with this?
Thanks!
Chris
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-01-24 16:47
Seems to be somekind of manuscript with 'traces' leading to the clarinet concert 622, but dated somewhere at the end of the 1780's.
There is an older treath by Marc C. refering to this, but I don't know how to link it into this message
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-01-24 17:00
The Mozarteum asked that the link be deleted, and it was. They still control all facsimilies of the fragment.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-01-24 17:00
I know I should read up on it, BUT, is this the "Winterthur" fragment? If so I believe that it is shown in Brymer, perhaps in Lawson. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-24 17:15
Mark - I know you don't always welcome discussions of copyright law on this board, but I am a little puzzled by your statement that the Mozarteum "control all facsimilies of the fragment".
How exactly can this be? If I buy a painting by a living artist, then (ordinarily) I own all rights to the physical canvas, but the artist retains the right to reproduce the image. Once the artist is long dead, the reproduction rights, as I understand it, pass into the public domain. They do not pass to the owner of the canvas.
If that is correct, then what is special about this fragment? The Mozarteum may well own the physical manuscript, but in what way does this allow them to prohibit the reproduction of facsimiles of it? Is it simply that they are the only people ever to have made a facsimile, and they are claiming copyright on the facsimile?
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-01-24 18:04
David Peacham wrote:
> If that is correct, then what is special about this fragment?
> The Mozarteum may well own the physical manuscript, but in what
> way does this allow them to prohibit the reproduction of
> facsimiles of it?
Ask any art museum - just try & make a facsimile of one of their owned artworks and distribute it (for free or otherwise).
If an unrestricted copy is available, you're free to copy the copy, but current owners of an object are not obligated to allow copying from the original. Most museums will only allow scholars to examine rare items _after_ they have signed a statement stating that no copy will be made.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-01-24 18:13
What's legal and what should be done are not the same. Mark has to maintain good relations with places like the Mozarteum and the Winterthur library, for the benefit of everyone in the clarinet world. If he ignores their request, he would never get anything from them again.
The Mozarteum of course can claim no copyright, but they can condition their willingness to supply a copy on a promise not to distribute it. While their legal right to demand this is thin, Mark obviously doesn't want to defend a lawsuit, which costs a pot of money even if you win.
The Dead Sea Scrolls were held for many years by a small group of scholars, who tightly controlled access. Finally, in 1991, a library in California, which had photographic copies, make them generally available. There was much shouting, but the long monopoly (more than 40 years) and intense interest in the scrolls prevented any claim.
Unfortunately, there's no public interest (or people with deep pockets) interested in making the Winterthur Fragment available.
I'm sure many people downloaded Winterthur copies while it was available.
Remember that a transcription of the Winterthur Fragment is printed at the end of the Neue Mozart Ausgabe (New Mozart Edition) volume containing the Clarinet Concerto, and the Concerto, with the Fragment, has been published separately, by, I believe, Bärenreiter. Any university music library or clarinet scholar will have it.
There's a good article on K. 621b at http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rb5h-ngc/e/k621b.htm, with recordings.
The first page can bee seen at http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:cSw49T_eNRkJ:winbib.ch/ContentGruppe/GruppeInhalt.asp%3FSprache%3DD%26Thema%3D100100%26Rubrik%3D0%26Gruppe%3D9%26Seite%3D101+mozart+621b&hl=en.
I suppose the Fragment can be found via the Wayback Machine, but I won't supply the link.
Ken Shaw
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