 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kristin Drown
Date: 2000-04-17 15:38
I am looking for recommendations on what step-up model student horns would be appropriate for 7th to 10th graders in the under $1000 price range. Also, I wondered what mouthpieces and reeds are appropriate for the level of player.
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Author: steve
Date: 2000-04-17 16:18
this is my own prejudice talking, so don't take it too seriously...I'm not a fan of step up instruments. I think a beginner should get the best beginer horn s/he can afford. If the beginner is serious, then it's time for a pro-grade horn. I realize that new pro grade horns are out of the price range of most folks, but used, carefully maintained, and then pro-overhauled horns are a good buy, imho. I don't subscribe to the clarinet blow out theory, and my experience has been that skilled repair folks can make great older horns fantastic!!! I rarely bought new instruments when I was playing.
But it is critical to have the used horn carefully evaluated by a teacher and skilled repair person...and don't be in any hurry...there are alot of used horns out there...try a bunch.
If you decide to get a new horn, get it checked out by a teacher and skilled repair person. You might want to patronize a ww specialist, as opposed to the Sam Ash equivalent...In fact, some dealers hand pick good horns, and then customize them to play at their optimum. This costs a bunch, but its an option. Folks who come to mind are IMS/Brannen/Greg Smith, Muncy, Ridenour, Charles Bay, Vince Marinelli, all in sneezy databases...
the questions are how serious is the student, how much can the extra services be apprecated, and how much money can be budgeted (possibly the most important question!!!)...
s.
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Author: Contragirl
Date: 2000-04-17 16:36
I went from A Bundy Student clarinet to a Buffet R-13. You really don't need a step up horn unless you plan on spending more money in the future for a professional one. Depends on how committed to the instrument the student is.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-04-17 16:55
Whether you buy step up horns or go to pro horns, stick with the four brands known for their quality. They are Leblanc, Buffet, Selmer, and Yamaha. You really can't go wrong with these.
If you decide on pro grade instruments, you could add Rossi, Patricola, and Peter Eaton to the list. They make only pro level horns, no intermediate or below grades.
As to new versus used, do you have some one available who is qualified to evaluate the condition of used instruments and assess the costs to bring it to like new condition? If so used instruments are a good buy. If not, perhaps it is best to stick with new. That way you'll have a warranty if there are problems.
Now as to pro versus intermediate level instruments, how much are you able and willing to spend?
Used pro instruments cost about the same as new intermediate horns. Used intermediate horns cost about half of new intermediate horns.
For $1000 dollars and down, you can probably get a used pro grade clarinet or a new intermediate. However to get that new intermediate at that price, you'll need to either deal with the major mail order houses or use their catalogs to bargain your local dealers down (and many will bargain).
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Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 2000-04-17 17:02
Without "tooting my own horn" and violating the rules for this forum, I'll suggest you look on the "Classified" pages here on Sneezy for various used clarinet options. You might get a real good clarinet for a lot less than a new or even used "top-4" name brand instrument. The world is not limited to Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, and Yamaha.
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Author: paul
Date: 2000-04-17 21:34
I personally know of a college performance major (Clarinet Major) who got a superb early 1960s handpicked R-13 for $800. That particular horn was absolutely top notch quality because it had been hand picked by a major city orchestra pro decades before and the horn was used as a back up horn for that time. Gently used, well cared for, tweaked to the max, with professional lessons available, too. I asked the college student if she would trade my mid 1990s premium pro grade horn for her decades old R-13. The look she shot back could have burnt right through cold steel. You know, like "What part of NO don't you understand?" kind of response. Plus, my wife would have chewed me up and spit me out if I had made the trade. ($3000 almost brand new premium pro grade for an almost 40 year old used $800 pro grade horn)
Oh, but that horn was well worth at least trying such a ridiculous offer. Wow!
Point here is this: If you do your homework well (or you are well connected like this student was), you can come out with a real beauty of a "preowned" horn for a great price.
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Author: Keil
Date: 2000-04-18 00:19
OKay here's my suggestions being a student and all, this is only for the really serious clarinet student. I reccomend starting them off on a plastic whatever clarinet and having a nice wooden one at home like a Buffet E-11 or E-12, this will definetly get them through elementary and middle school, once the child hits that high school plateau i would bump them up to either an R-13 or a comprable other clarinet, age doesn't matter, we're looking for quality. I myself started clarinet a year ago and started on a Bundy, i now use it for marching band and use my R-13 for my wind ensemble work. As far as a setup goes whatever works best at achieving that optimum clarinet tone which IMHO, has no specific perameters (sp?). I would keep the plastic and so called intermediate horns for whatever, you never know when you'll have an outside gig and you wouldn't dream of using your pro-horn out there, at least i wouldn't!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-04-18 00:42
Keil wrote:
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OKay here's my suggestions being a student and all, this is only for the really serious clarinet student. I reccomend starting them off on a plastic whatever clarinet and having a nice wooden one at home like a Buffet E-11 or E-12, this will definetly get them through elementary and middle school, once the child hits that high school plateau i would bump them up to either an R-13 or a comprable other clarinet
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This is fine for a student that is quite serious about music *and* who has parents that have the funds to do this. If you fall in this category fine, go for it. However in all honesty a good intermediate horn with the right mouthpiece and reed along with the right training and sufficient practice will meet the needs of high school and all but the most developed and exacting of musicians. So if the student is serious but funds are limited, he/she can still be a top notch player.
Training and practice are the most important elements in one's development. Although I eventually saved up enough money to get a really fine (used) instrument about 1/2 way through high school, I made 1st chair in band and I's at contest on the sorriest setup anyone ever had beating out the people with the nice setups. It was a junk Pan American with a crack the size of the Grand Canyon that had been badly repaired, one badly repaired tone hole, a no name mouthpiece and plain Rico reeds. At the time, my youthful ignorance was a blessing. I did not know how bad it was and just practiced until I got the results I wanted. Of course, knowing what I know now I wouldn't wish the setup that I had on anyone else but simply state this experience so that people won't get "hung up" on equipment. It's great if you can afford good equipment, but if you can't manage it, you still be a fine player.
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Author: Laur
Date: 2000-04-18 01:30
I have a Selmer 200 ( ? ) intermediate/semi pro horn. I love it. I started out on a rental horn, then I got a bundy resoniate one. When I entered HS, I got a wooden one. I hate the fact that I have to trade it in and get a "Professional Clarinet" once I hit college. This clarinet gives the BEST tone in the world, and plays absolutly beautifully, soloing and or in an ensemble. Is there really a difference between an interediate and pro horn ? I think that whatever horn your budget can afford go for it. Not many people in HS have these top of the line, professional horms...
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Author: Kim
Date: 2000-04-18 02:48
I am now a music major and went through beginning, intermediate, and pro stages. I suggest to keep your plastic instrument for marching band, or any outside playing. For an intermediate instrument, I wouldn't use a new pro-grade horn because you do not know how serious you are about playing. Some students get through high school and find that they don't want to continue into college. A pro-grade horn is not a smart investment if you are just entering high school or are still in middle school.
If you want a good, high-quality wooden instrument I would go for a used instrument. These instruments cost the same as most intermediate instruments. When I bought my used horn, it was better and more responsive than the E-11 that I played.
When you buy your new instrument, old or new, I suggest changing your mouthpiece to something like a B45, M13, or 5RV. Even try out the custom made mouthpieces(Greg Smith, Hawkins, and Borbeck). These mouthpieces will change your tone quality and even if you are playing on an intermediate horn, you will sound like you are playing on a pro-grade instrument.
Just go out and try what's best for you and do not be afraid to try something you don't want to! That instrument could be perfect for you. Good luck!
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Author: Kim
Date: 2000-04-18 02:53
When I went into college as a freshman last year, I had an old Buffet. It didn't have the best tone quality in the world, but it was perfect for me at the time.
As far as "trading in my clarinet for a "Professional Clarinet," I wouldn't do it because if it sounds right, feels right, and has good intonation then I would keep it. If your clarinet teacher feels that your clarinet is not good enough, then buy the professional clarinet.
Here is the instrumentation of my clarinet section: 5 R-13's, 1 E-12, 1 Yamaha, 1 Plastic Clarinet, and 1 Selmer. Just don't trade something in if you are specifically told that it is not good enough!
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-04-18 16:50
My "beginner" instrument was a new wooden one sold as an intermediate at the time (1958 Conn Director). As an adult, I actually did the reverse of the usual -- I went out and bought a used, plastic Bundy in good condition, just so I'd have a plastic instrument for playing outdoors or for practicing in an unheated house in case of a winter power failure. Plastic student instruments sell for very little used, especially if the case is in ugly-looking condition. I agree with the person who said to keep the plastic beginner clarinet, whether or not you buy a step-up or a used pro clarinet. (I vote for the used pro instrument, if a teacher or other advanced player can check it out first.) There are quite a few circumstances (weather and/or poor security) where you won't want to take either your most valuable pro-quality instrument or a wooden intermediate.
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Author: paul
Date: 2000-04-18 21:59
A good beginner grade horn, plastic base with perhaps a decent mouthpiece and good reeds can take a real beating in extreme conditions. No arguement there. A top of the line pro grade horn can sound fantastic in the right hands. No arguement there, either. But what about playing the horn just for the joy of it? For me, all I have and all I will ever have is my pro grade horn. That's okay. But it sure would be great to check out a plastic beater every now and then and join in whatever group or situation unfolds before me (community band, outdoor concert, neighborhood group, church group, etc.) without having to worry about guarding the horn from damage. Just jump in and have fun with kids and adults alike. Now, that would be a blast!
So, in my case, perhaps a step-up horn would really be a step-down horn. Sounds backward, but somehow it seems to make sense to me. What do you think?
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-04-18 23:45
paul wrote:
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... But it sure would be great to check out a plastic beater every now and then and join in whatever group or situation unfolds before me (community band, outdoor concert, neighborhood group, church group, etc.) without having to worry about guarding the horn from damage. Just jump in and have fun with kids and adults alike. Now, that would be a blast!
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Used Bundys and Vitos are abundantly available at fairly low prices and are pretty decent plastic instruments. Of course Yamaha and Buffet plastics are good too but just not as common on the used market at this time. Put a good mouthpiece on it and they sound quite good. I picked up a Vito, repadded it, and used it in the summer band when the weather looked questionable. None of the other clarinetists even noticed the difference. The key to it is that good quality mouthpiece.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-04-19 06:33
If a student can afford a step-up horn, fine, but I do agree in keeping a plastic horn or an old beater for a back-up, especialy if the student will be marching in bad weather. My daughters band has had it start raining so bad during halftime you couldn't hardly hear the band. It cost me a few pads but at least it wasn't her good horn.
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-04-20 02:54
I was at the store trying out some intermediate horns and, as far as I could tell, were a waste of money. I just went from a Yamaha YCL-20 to a Yamaha Allegro...which was a mere $1079...not a bad bargain...anyway, I agree with everyone that says step up, shmep up.
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