 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-23 19:33
Trying to settle a debate with a colleague:
Has anyone who has either studied or played the Weber Concerto #2, been taught, or decided to use, an alternate D6 fingering for the D6 in the 2nd measure of the opening entrance of the clarinet (measure 51 from the beginning) in the 1st movement?
...GBK
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-01-23 19:35
No....why would you need an alternate there?
The standard seems to work fine and also seems logical.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-01-23 20:27
Glenn, what did the colleague have in mind.
Fascinating (raises one eyebrow)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-23 20:38
I didn't want to influence the answers by giving any alternate fingering choices, but his rationale was to try and keep the D6 in the same partial. Thus he suggested using this fingering:
TR + throat G# key o o o + lower RH side Eb key / o o o
David - The above fingering is one I've actually seen players use for the opening of Capriccio Espagnol ...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2006-01-23 23:05
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David - The above fingering is one I've actually seen players use for the opening of Capriccio Espagnol ...GBK
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Yes, I know that.
I don't like it, Combs doesn't like it and Ricardo doesn't like it.
Silfes liked it. I don't think the passage has enough balls with the side fingering instead of the regular fingering plus the RH Eb key for the C so it's already down and brightens up the C.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2006-01-23 23:37
When I studied this piece, I tried it that way and the D is always too flat and the umph it needs is not there. But I suppose if the D is in tune it may be smoother.
That said, I've never seen it performed using any alt. fingering.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-01-24 00:18
What's wrong with the ALL OPEN "D?" Just add the last two bottom side keys for intonation in extended situations. I use this a great deal especially in combo with the Eb using just the G# key and the E with just the register and A keys. FAST FAST FAST !!!!
I am working on the Weber as we speak and have consciously taken out many "open" Ds that I was using as a matter of course because the pitch is just a shade too low and most regular D fingerings work fine, however that measure you mention seems a "must" along with the second beat of meas. 229 or twenty-seven bars from the end.
Also depends on your axe. These alternates work a shade better on Leblancs.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-24 01:45
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> I'd love to hear the recording of Marcellus.
Sony Classical/Legacy SK 93019 ...GBK
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2006-01-24 02:56
"What's wrong with the ALL OPEN "'D?'"
It's disgusting, doesn't match in intonation, and doesn't match in timbre, side keys or not. The only time I'd ever use it in mainstream rep. would be in the extremely fast groups of 5 near the end of the Variation.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-01-24 06:05
I would say with much certainty that the full fingering should be used, for all the points above. I'm just putting my two cents in because I recently played it with orchestra and know it like the back of my hand!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2006-01-25 11:40
I almost always choose pitch, timbre, and sound quality over ease of execution.
Do we all use the resonance A fingering because it's easy to do? 
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-01-25 11:56
I recall a lesson with John Bruce Yeh in which I was completely frustrated with whatever the task was at hand on the grounds of technical complexity (I think it must have been Rose 40 nr. 1). I said, "If I can't even do this, how could I possibly play something like the Nielsen Concerto?"
John said, "Oh, the Nielsen is EASY, it's all fake fingers."
Disclaimer: We never worked on the Nielsen together so I don't know to which fingers he was speaking. I gave up after Rose nr. 3. John Yeh may no longer use fake fingers. After all that was twenty-four years ago.
................respectfully,
........................Paul Aviles
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-01-26 04:20
Because the regular high D fingering sounds better? If one can't master that kind of transition of registers then what is it that they can handle?
I (and my teacher Marcellus) always thought that being able to use a standard fingering was not simply a "king of the mountain" kind of thing but rather a necessity for those occasions when one was required to have to rely upon them. They inevitably come up in the literature and any clarinetist not able to employ them will eventually have to compromise in some form or another in some way, someday.
This subject reminds me of many threads that have gone before about whether the primary fingering for throat f# is the top fingering or the one employing the two side trill keys.
Needless to say, the Rimsky is played by Marcellus using all of the standard or regular fingerings. Even the high "F" noodles in Daphnis on the Szell/Cleveland recording are played using all of the standard fingerings. But you're talking about someone that after practicing over the span of just a few short weeks and within the span of two lessons with Bonade played the Jeanjean 16 Moderne - the first eight one lesson, the second 8 the next lesson. Even Bonade was impressed beyond words.
But, not to show too much or inappropriate praise for such a feat, at the end of the two lessons Bonade coyly explained that it was indeed quite an accomplishment although a few days earlier, he had a young woman who played straight through the stark Arp. studies in one lesson - and at record speed.
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2006-01-26 04:22)
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