 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-22 04:11
I recently had the good fortune to try a custom Bb barrel made by Allan Segal and I now see why some of the past postings about his products are certainly well deserved.
The barrel I tried was made of beautiful unstained cocobolo wood and I played it with a few of my vintage R13's.
Expecting the usual "no effect" or not enough difference to warrant continued use, I was definitely impressed with the barrel and it was a nice improvement over the numerous handpicked stock R13 barrels which I presently use.
(Quick disclaimer: I have tried many barrels over the past 40+ years, from practically all manufacturers: Chadash, Moennig, Backun, Muncy, Morgan, etc ... and while some did have positive qualities, none made a significant enough improvement in all categories: projection, focus, tone and intonation to make me want to permanently switch)
Allan Segal's barrel, for me, had a round, colorful tone quality, and excellent projection without sacrificing warmth of sound or creating significant intonation problems.
This is definitely a barrel which should be tried when thinking of making a change in your present setup.
As we all know - barrels, mouthpieces, ligatures, etc... are just one small part of the equation and there is no magic bullet to replace old fashioned practice and/or lessons with a fine teacher
BTW - Allan Segal (clarinetconcepts) is a woodwind.org sponsor and frequently posts on this bulletin board...GBK
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-01-22 05:30
Out of curiousity, are you going to make this new barrel your regular barrel, and if not why?
Thanks.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-22 05:44
I played the barrel just this evening in an orchestral concert and it felt very comfortable.
My spies in the audience said the sound was full and projected well.
Although I haven't heard the recording, the answer for now is yes.
(Until something better comes along ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ) ...GBK
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-01-22 11:39
(Disclaimer - I receive no remuneration from Clarinetconcepts)
I too have switched to one of Allan's custom barrels for my Buffet Vintage Bb clarinet. Buried back in another post I recommended Allan Segal's barrels but will join the list of people that believe that the improvement in tone, articulation, and projection are worth the effort to switch from my current set up. I liken Allan to one of the custom mouthpiece makers in that he asks about your playing ability, primary playing style and type, and what hardware (mouthpiece and reed) that you are now using and somehow translates that into his custom barrel making for your needs.
I must admit that I am a "toy" junkie and have drawers full of equipment including mouthpieces and barrels which I have tried and briefly used before coming back to several barrels and mouthpieces that work especially well for me. All of this experimentation, which I would not suggest for the health of your pocketbook, has however honed my skills at evaluating new equipment in a better way so that I hope that I now choose with more precision.
I think that we have established, or should emphasize once again, that equipment is player dependent and what works wonderfully for one will not work especially well for another. Less well developed players often switch from hardware to hardware choice as a perceived substitute for developing skills and gaining improvement through practicing. I recently recommended that a friend spend 500 hours practicing rather than $500. on a mouthpiece endorsed by a famous player with the full conviction that this would help their playing ability more.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-01-23 01:36
L. Omar Henderson wrote:
I recently
> recommended that a friend spend 500 hours practicing rather
> than $500. on a mouthpiece endorsed by a famous player with the
> full conviction that this would help their playing ability
> more.
> L. Omar Henderson
======
Great advice Omar, but ...
If time is worth even a nominal value of $40/hr (or 500 x 40 = $20,000) and the mouthpiece gets you even 1/10 what the practice time does in terms of improvement, the mouthpiece is still a great bargain.
[This is the logic that high-end manufacturers who sell to well-heeled hobbyists use. In spite of the stereotypes around that doctors and lawyers and corporate executives work short weeks and play a lot of golf, for many of us, time is the limiting factor in what we can do outside of work, and work weeks go over 60 hours, and sometimes way over. Hence, an expensive toy that works and gives at least some improvement may be a bargain as compared to spending a lot of time in practice. I understand that this logic does not apply to working pros or dedicated students, but it does apply to relatively high-income amateurs who want to perform at as high a level as they can (such individuals tend to be fairly driven over-achievers), and explains why so much of this stuff is actually marketed toward such individuals. And, it should also be remembered that "early adopters" of high-end instruments and add-ons tend to be the ones who subsidize the research and development activities that lead to better, less expensive, more mass-market products.
Also, it is a bargain to purchase products from somebody who really knows what they are doing and to purchase their expertise. Hence, I would pay Backun or Segal or Fobes or Grabner a lot for a product I know will be among the best to save the time of comparison shopping 45 different options, some of which may be less expensive. Similarly, I know your products are considered the best for preserving my clarinets, and I look no further than your catalog if you offer the product. Again, I understand this is a different model than pros and students should, and will, use, but for folks with other day jobs, it works, and is a lucrative business model for the vendors.]
George
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-01-23 14:16
George, you make some very good points. I too have limited time and have not seen a 40 hour work week since high school. I hope that I bring the perspective of a scientist, teacher, more or less technically competent clarinetist, and small business person in the woodwind industry to bear on some issues, now doubt with my own biases.
Very few individuals are blessed with the necessary talent, time, mental approach to the art, the discipline to practice, and excellent teachers along the way that will elevate them to the ranks of professional musicians. The rest of us bring what aspects we can of these elements to bear as musicians in varying degrees to become hobby, semi-professional, or "enjoyment" part time players. There are certain elements (perceived in my role as a teacher) in the progress of any player that are necessary and essential to the purely technical aspects of making music on the clarinet. That being said, each individual brings a different architecture of oral cavity, facial muscles, lung capacity and efficiency, fine motor control, etc., aspects to the task. In my opinion, equipment is rarely limiting to reach a high intermediate level of playing ability if reasonably good functioning and time tested hardware are selected. Reaching this level and further may be facilitated by selected hardware that acts in synergy with the physical attributes of the player, not neglecting the psychological components as trivial either, but rarely IMO produce significant improvement long term without all of the other elements.
I think that we are blessed with a current cadre of fine musicians that are also extremely talented in the arts of making fine instruments, mouthpieces, barrels, bells, etc., and a varied selection of pretty good reed types and accessories. Buying improved technology however does not translate into improved performance. There are, in my opinion, many products being sold that are not good from a technical, and practical standpoint or are priced more by hype and exaggeration than actual improved function. There are also marketing hype, exaggeration, and outright lies used in advertising for products sold to musicians. Where possible I try to bring a scientific and evidentiary approach to lauding or damning products. As a business person I understand the necessity of advertising, recouping R & D expenses, and sales based on fad or hype. As a teacher I hope that I can distinguish when equipment may somehow aid the development of a student and where practice and the development of skills, embouchure improvement, and practiced fine motor skills are a necessary element for improvement.
I believe that obtaining the fruits of the innovative abilities and the artistic talents of the many fine business people providing exceptional products for players is good (keep it up !!!), but would also listen to "knowledgeable" people (by their professional credentials, experience, proven teaching track record, or credible evidence) that can evaluate and critique products to separate hype from function. There will rarely be inventions that are quantum improvements over existing products but often many products with slight improvements. It is up to the individual to evaluate the price that they are willing to pay for improved hardware, but they should investigate and evaluate whether this improvement will aid in the total scope of their playing as addendum to the improvements brought about by practice and a good teacher.
Finally, the $500.00 mouthpiece - I have not tried one (although I know others that have tried several specimens) so I cannot say if it is a quantum improvement in tone, response, ease of playing, etc. over a $150.00 custom mouthpiece fitted to the individual player by a current mouthpiece artisan or a $350.00 purported recreation of the materials and dimensions of a "classic" mouthpiece, or if it is inflated and exaggerated hype. A critical evaluation of my own needs for development and my recommendation to a friend would indicate to me that 500 hours of serious practice for both of us would however bring us closer to a quantum leap in playing improvement than an improved mouthpiece.
L. Omar Henderson
Doctor's Products and the Forte' Instrument Group
Post Edited (2006-01-23 14:22)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-23 15:45
I suppose now you see why some of us use such glowing terms about some of our equipment. I think Allan is a great guy as well.
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2006-02-23 11:07
I just got my newly made custom cocobola barrel for my R13 and after using it for a few hours I am very impressed. It has the best intonation of any of my barrels(including muncy-synthetic, David Weber and stock R13 barrels). The warmth of sound is really quite suprising and I can see it becoming my main barrel for years to come. Everybody looking at improving their setup should give him a go. I think Allan is one of the nicest people I have dealt with when it comes to buying and I wish him the best in his future barelling!
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-02-23 11:29
Hello,
These are the best barrels I've ever used. I'm using them on both my b-flat and e-flat clarinets daily. The workmanship is impeccable, dealing with Dr. Segal is a pleasure, and the barrels sound great with excellent tuning.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-02-23 12:15
(Disclaimer - I receive no compensation from Clarinet Concepts)
In order to turn a frown upside down into a smile I have not posted my GAS score but if collecting and using several barrels is a BAD GAS score raiser then I am guilty. It does however give more gas to the recommendation for Allan Segal barrels because they play better and offer more improvement in intonation than the other GAS barrels in my possession. I probably should own and operate a refinery to keep my GAS Hog obsession running.
L. Omar Henderson
Post Edited (2006-02-23 12:17)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-23 12:30
It's about getting the most out of those hours you spend practicing. Decent equipment can help. Bad GAS can be a pain.
What do you think it is about this particular piece of equipment that brings the benefits? Bore shape? Material? Custom fitting?
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Author: CPW
Date: 2006-02-23 13:08
None of the above.
Rumor has it that he burns the inside and soaks bourbon in the bores.
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-02-23 13:37
(Disclaimer - I have no association with Clarinet Concepts, I do not sell custom barrels, and am a maker of the Forte' clarinet and Power Barrel)
I have done a considerable amount of work myself in prototyping new barrel designs for the Forte' clarinet in Bb and C and IMHO the taper is the most important aspect with regard to intonation and response. The classic taper designs come from both Chadash and Moennig schools and current craftsmen have their own twists which include multiple tapers and refinements of the classic school's designs. Barrel length is a multiple or dependent variable in most designs except for the different acoustic properties of the Power Barrel. The material IMO plays some part too in the sound quality with certain exotic hardwoods imparting a more (personally subjective to be sure) warm and more mellow tone. Mouthpiece and barrel artisans too have the ability to customize their products for a particular clarinet and player. And I would not discount this artisan aspect in the fitting of the barrel to the particular clarinet. - But, can you trust the opinion of a GAS Hog like myself?
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-02-23 14:08
I notice that most who comment about these barrels are playing Buffets. Has anyone used this barrel on a Leblanc?
I have a LL and use a 64mm Ridenour barrel to take care of a slight flatness especially in the throat tones. It works fine, but I wouldn't mind if my sound was warmer and slightly more resistive. I use a Fobes 4L mouthpiece which is very free blowing and I think it contributes to the problem, but I love the Fobes for a variety of reasons.
.....Jim
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-02-23 15:16
Lets see, Omar & George:
I practiced about 750 hours last year and earned $10 for my performances. That's 1.3 cents per hour and establishes my pay scale.
So:
that $500 mouthpiece will take me 37,500 hours of practice to pay for. At my age, I'll never get the payback (18-years of full time --8-hours per work day-- practice).
Maybe there is time to be saved as George points out. Who would like to loan me a couple of them barrels and mouthpieces, maybe a bell for testing and charity purposes. I'll give you a receipt for your charity.
Bob Phillips
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-02-23 16:32
Hello Bob,
Did your mother sign your practice report for those 750 hours?
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-02-23 17:17
Bob - it is for the joy and self satisfaction that most of us play. I realized a long time ago that I was given neither the talent nor temperament to be a professional musician but love to play anyway. I am very lucky to have found a second love and career that pays and supports the other fun aspects of life which I would starve if they were my means of support. IMO money too often removes the basis for true progression which is practice and good teaching and lulls us into the GAS arena in hopes of improving playing through hardware alone. If a person can readily afford equipment that improves their playing then there is no sin in that either if it acts in synergy with practice. My comments on good equipment only serve to highlight things that I think are true improvements in gear which may or may not help another person's playing but are certainly not a substitute for hard work. I applaud your 750 hours !!!!
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-02-23 19:34
"Rumor has it that he burns the inside and soaks bourbon in the bores."
"Jack or Jim? :-D"
Point of clarification: Jim Beam is a Bourbon. Jack Daniels is a Tennessee sour mash whiskey. Whiskey must come from Kentucky to be bourbon.
Apart from that sillly detail, thanks to those who have contributed to my knowledge of Allan Segal's barrels! I look forward to giving them a whirl...
James Tobin
Clarinetist, Bartender.
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-02-24 03:35
That's Burnished, NOT burned. ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
Bourbon? Maker's Mark.
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-02-24 04:10
Bob, approach the issue of acquiring equipment you would like to experiment with from the opposite viewpoint. If you acquire something expensive that holds value (perhaps a vintage mouthpiece or historical instrument), you might later donate it to a School of Music or another 501(c)3 (charitable) organization with a value of close to what you paid or perhaps more if time has passed and it has appreciated. If you are in a state with income tax, the combined federal and state tax savings you could have from donating the equipment might amount to as much as 40-50% of the price that the equipment is valued at when donated depending upon your income level and other donations in that tax year. Thus, a donation could make your use of the equipment for the time you own it relatively "cheap" and in the end benefit a student or scholar at a music school who could not afford something like that. A number of historical clarinets I have acquired and am restoring (specifically some especially good examples of Mazzeo and Stubbins and McIntyre clarinets) are being acquired to later donate to university schools of music to preserve the study of alternate clarinet designs. Do note that my lawyers have taught me to state that I am not a tax attorney nor am I a CPA and this email is not offered as tax advice; consult a licensed professional tax consultant in your state before using any strategies to reduce taxes or deduct charitable donations. George
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2006-08-05 22:42
I have recently purchased two Eb clarinet barrels from Allan Segal and I wanted everyone to know how great they are! Allan can make them work with either regular uncut Bb clarinet reeds or smaller Eb clarinet reeds. He custom made them for me and will work with you until you find your perfect match. I would like to recommend them to anyone looking for a better playing experience. I am not sure if he or his barrels will be at the ICA conference next week, but he is a sponsor of this BB and has a website as well. http://www.clarinetconcepts.com
Brad Behn
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-08-06 02:00
I believe that Allan has given a bunch of them to Ben Redwine to sell at his booth. I too am very pleased with the personal service and staying with you until he has tweaked a barrel to your instrument. His custom barrel for my Amati A pro clarinet was made from scratch and has cured many of the intonation issues that I had with the horn. The Bb barrel for my Buffet is fantastic too! (I do not sell Allan's barrels - darn!)
L. Omar Henderson
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