 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2000-04-16 04:06
I am interested in getting a clarinet with low Eb which is usually only found on full Boehm system horns. I know there are a number of regulars on this site who have full Boehm horns and would like to hear from some of them regarding how these horns play. Reading through the archives I saw that some people claim that full Boehms have intonation problems on certain notes due to the extended length of the tube. Is this true? And if so are the pitch problems slight enough to where they can be corrected with the lip? Also, is the extra weight such that it makes a noticeable difference supporting the horn with the right thumb? It seems to me that a low Eb horn would make a good jazz horn as the key of Eb (concert Db) is fairly common in jazz ("One O'clock Jump" by Count Basie, "Diminuendo in Blue" by Duke Ellington, etc.) and it would be nice to have a low tonic to resolve to. Yet I've never seen anyone use a low Eb horn.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-04-16 19:31
I have 2 F B's and a "3/4" [ no low Eb]. The Penzel-Mueller goes flat above the staff, The Selmer is Ok to me, the Pruefer [3/4] is not real playable yet. There is quite a diff. from a 17/6, just try and evaluate it yourself. I played my PM in dance bands years ago and remember using the low Eb only to end Stardust [chalemeau solo]. That key gives you a [usually] far better mid-staff Bb, if there are no pad leaks!! I believe its main purpose is for transposition of A cl parts. Others, please add to my experience, Don
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Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-04-16 19:38
The main resason for a full boehm is to play a clarinet parts on Bb. THe low Eb is to reach the low E on the A and the extra G# trill is for G# f# trills.
Thats all I know. Anthoney bains-woodwind instruments and thier history goes into great detail about the full boehm
GRaham
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Author: Rob
Date: 2000-04-17 04:24
I have two full boehms, a Selmer Series 10 and an old one-piece Buffet. The Selmer plays pretty well in tune, the Buffet is not quite as good, but still manageable. As for the extra weight, that is a complete myth as far as I'm concerned. The Series 10 full boehm weighs considerably less than my Selmer Recital (which I know is heavier than avarage)and about the same as my old standard 17/6 Selmer K series. The Buffet full boehm I have weighs even less than my old K Series. Before purchasing one though, you should always try playing it because some people find it very difficult to get used to the additional keywork,(especially the right hand key levers) and on some models the intonation can be horrid, but that's true of many clarinets. Additionally, if you intend to use it as your primary clarinet and you are studying with anyone, they may not be thrilled. I remember that when I was in high school a friend of mine who played on an old Selmer full boehm began studying with Herb Blayman and within about a month she showed up a school with a new R13. It seems Mr. Blayman was no fan of the full boehm, at least according to her. The other consideration is that because they are not as common, you need to be doubly careful about your choice of technicians. While they are not drastically more complicated than the usual 17/6 you see, they do tend to be a bit intimidating to some repair folks; some of them even charge more to work on them. You can also still buy them new. I know that Patricola and Amati still make them, both in Bb and A (though I cannot speak for their quality), so there must still be a market for them. Personally, I enjoy playing them and don't really have intonation problems, at least no more than I would have playing on one of those overrated R13s.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2000-04-17 04:59
Rob--thanks for the response. Very interesting to hear that the full Boehm is not a thumbuster. Right now I'm playing on a 3/4 Boehm (Leblanc LL with articulated G#/C#, forked Bb/Eb, and left hand Eb/Ab) and have no trouble with the extra keywork, though I occasionally trip over the left hand Eb/Ab. I just purchased a Selmer bass clarinet (model 35 to low Eb) so i'm getting accustomed to the extra right hand key, though I sometimes have trouble finding the right hand B/E key. My interest in clarinet is primarily jazz playing and big band doubling so I don't think anyone I play with would look upon a full Boehm negatively. I see that mouthpiece maker Charles Bay offers Patricola clarinets for sale that he has fine tuned. Patricola offers full Boehms as part of their regular line so buying one through Bay might be a way to get a very nice horn without waiting months for a special order to be filled. If I end up getting one I'll post my impressions on this site and the Selmer site Clarinet Corner.
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Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 2000-04-17 14:25
I have, believe it or not, a full-Boehm "A" clarinet, with low E-flat. It's stencilled "M. Lacroix", which was an importer's marque, and I don't know who the actual manufacturer was. I'd say the clarinet plays very well overall, it's somewhat resistant like many "A" clarinets, but the presence of the extra length of the bottom joint (to accommodate the low E-flat) improves the low E/middle B (which are often problem notes otherwise). The articulated G-sharp is a bit clearer than most regular G-sharps. The auxiliary l.h. E-flat/A-flat lever is well-positioned on this particular clarinet and is unobtrusive. I'm not sure why they put a low E-flat on an "A" clarinet (maybe to play some of the basset clarinet parts?), but its presence certainly doesn't hurt. Other than all the extra mechanisms, I'd say it plays like a typical "A" clarinet. I don't have any bona fide full-Boehm B-flat clarinets for comparison, although I do have a Guy Humphrey with one extra ring and an articulated G-sharp ("partial-full-Boehm"?), and it plays very well in all respects.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-04-17 17:33
I have a 1979 Selmer alto clarinet (wood) that's full Boehm. Apparently full Boehm is more common on altos than on Bbs. I like the system on alto (never tried it on Bb). This clarinet has good intonation. "Thumb-buster" hasn't been a problem, since I use a neck strap for alto.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-04-17 19:44
Interesting, Lelia, my Selmer Alto cl is a half-full Boehm, has fork Eb/Bb and low Eb only, Ser # B0244 [about the same vintage?], so guess they made all combinations! My Sel Bass is a full Boehm, tho I'm addicted to the "long" Eb [ both index fingers] dont remember the fork!! Works fine!! Don
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Author: Ron Braun
Date: 2000-04-17 20:03
Robert-
I'll be honest, I have never heard a Full Boehm System Clarinet. But why couldn't you just get an A clarinet? It will give you the extended range below E and you won't have to learn andy new keys/
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2000-04-18 05:32
Ron--what has piqued my interest in the full Boehm soprano is playing my new bass (Selmer 35 to low Eb). Now when I play my soprano I find that I miss the low Eb. The responses to my original post have set my mind to rest regarding intonation, tone quality, and weight. The only potential problem I can foresee with a full Boehm soprano is a problem that I'm currently having with my bass: I sometimes have difficulty hitting the right hand E/B key, overshooting it and hitting the low Eb instead. If I can overcome this problem on the bass I see no downside to a full Boehm soprano, only the upside of having a slightly extended range. Also, regarding Lelia's post above, I found it interesting that Selmer made a full Boehm alto. My model 35 bass is not a true full Boehm. Although it has the low Eb, articulated G#/C#, and left hand Eb/Ab key, it does not have the fork Bb/Eb that would make it a true full Boehm. Still a nice horn though.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-04-18 16:54
Don, my full Boehm Selmer alto has plateau keys, too. Were those standard on Selmer altos of that period? I like the plateau keys on alto because I have skinny fingers. Not a problem on Bb clarinet, but the alto is just enough bigger that I'm glad I can "miss" a little and still close all the keys adequately.
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Author: Sherwood W. Franklin
Date: 2000-04-19 01:47
Robert, I have had my full boehm Buffet since 1941 (purchased new). The additional weight and length become no problem, it's just that you become accustomed to it. Buffet makes these instruments, at least that is what I was told in France last year when I visited the factory. They are made for the Italian and Russian markets. I suppose it would be possible to obtain one though. Perhaps Francois Kloc could answer that question. My clarinet was made around 1937 and it is as good as the day it was purchase, save the repadding and recorking. There is no hint of a crack of any kind and the keys are as brillant and shiny as when new. I checked the bore of this clarinet with vernier calipers and found that the bore is .567, exactly the same as the Selmer Recital Series. I am certain that if you do obtain one, you will enjoy the fingering latitudes you have with a full boehm clarinet. Wes Franklin
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Author: Sherwood W. Franklin
Date: 2000-04-20 02:03
I stand corrected. The .567 bore is identical to the Selmer Series II 10S, not the Recital Series.
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