 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-01-11 13:42
I read somewhere (Pamela Weston?) that the slow movement of the First
concerto was played at Weber's funeral, with the horn parts taken by a
male voice choir singing a eulogy to Weber.
Does anyone know the details, especially what the words actually were?
I'm away from home, and without access to an English library
Tony
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-01-11 15:17
I couldn't find any such reference in Pamela Weston's essay in "The Cambridge Compendium." I don't own a biography of Weber. The only editions of sheet music I own are from Carl Fischer and International (with the orchestral scores in piano reduction); none of them include historical notes. I checked Jack Brymer's "The Clarinet," David Pino's "The Clarinet and Clarinet Playing," Robert Willaman's "The Clarinet and Clarinet Playing," Anthony Baines's "Woodwind Instruments and Their History, Grove's, the Oxford Companion to Music and Baker's Encyclopedia. The only information I found (in the encyclopedias only, not in any of the clarinet-specific books) was that at the funeral, and/or at a memorial service 18 years later, Wagner conducted selections from a Weber opera (or operas--different sources name different works!), that he (Wagner, I think they mean) arranged for wind instruments. The entries I found were vague and unsatisfactory. None of them corroborated the story about the slow movement of the First Concerto. Sorry!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-11 17:56
Wikipedia tells us that Weber was buried in London, but 18 years later, his remains were transferred and re-buried in Dresden.
Since Weber died in 1826, it is unlikely that Wagner, who would have been only 13 years old, conducted anything at his funeral. He might well have conducted at a re-burial 18 years later.
So does Tony's story relate to the funeral or (as seems more likely) to the re-burial?
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-11 20:36
For a concert homage to Weber in 1831 in Berlin, Bärmann arranged the Adagio section of the 2nd movement of the First Concerto (mm 41 forward - clarinet w/3horns ) for clarinet and three male voices. They sang the words by Eduard von Schenk:
Er ist dahin, der Schöpfer dieser Klänge!
Der Hohe Meister, der von hinnen schied,
Er lehrt den Engelchören nun Gesänge;
Doch ewig lebt auf Erden auch sein Lied!
...GBK
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-12 10:04
According to Babelfish:
He is there, the creator of these sounds! The high master, who separated from hinnen, it teaches the angel choirs now singing; But eternally also its song lives on ground connection!
More accurately, I think:
Er ist dahin, der Schöpfer dieser Klänge!
He is gone, the creator of these sounds
Der Hohe Meister, der von hinnen schied,
The great master, departed from here
Er lehrt den Engelchören nun Gesänge;
Now he teaches songs to the chorus of angels
Doch ewig lebt auf Erden auch sein Lied!
Yet his song will live for ever on Earth as well.
Corrections to my translation gratefully received.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-01-12 11:50
The information may be perfectly good, but sources like Babelfish and Wikipedia have no professional fact-checkers. Information from those sites makes me nervous, unless the person who submits the material names a specific, reliable source so that I can do my own fact-checking. As a staff writer for the magazine "Scarlet Street," I frequently find incorrect movie cast lists, incorrect plot descriptions and other errors online. The trouble with this Internet stuff is: We don't know where it's been.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-12 12:24
Lelia Loban wrote:
> The information may be perfectly good, but sources like
> Babelfish and Wikipedia have no professional fact-checkers.
> Information from those sites makes me nervous, unless the
> person who submits the material names a specific, reliable
> source so that I can do my own fact-checking.
Lelia - Nervous?? ...Don't get nervous...Life's too short.
The information concerning Weber's funeral comes from the most respected and complete biography of Weber:
Carl Maria von Weber by John Warrack, (Macmillan 1968)
Do all the fact checking you want ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-12 15:56
Lelia - Babelfish doesn't have fact-checkers because it is just a translation program. Actually, I put in the Babelfish translation of the German quoted by GBK partly as a joke, and partly to prove that my translation was actually my own work, not straight out of Babelfish. In this case, the Babelfish translation is near-garbage.
Wikipedia doesn't have professional fact-checkers either, I agree. What it does have is a community of users who tend to filter incorrect information fairly rapidly. If you look up subjects that you know a lot about in Wikipedia, you find that most of the information is correct most of the time. Movie cast lists may be an exception to this rule, I couldn't say. Actually, you can't say a whole lot more than that of most journalism, most printed encyclopedias or even a lot of textbooks. I have seen some appalling howlers in printed encyclopedias. When I quote from Wikipedia, I make that fact evident, as I did above. I am saying, in effect, this seems plausible, but I don't guarantee it. In this particular case the Wikipedia account, referring to a re-burial service 18 years after the funeral, was consistent with the source you had quoted, so it seemed a pretty fair bet that it might be correct. The other thing to say about Wikipedia is that, by and large, it is improving. That is just as one would expect.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-01-12 21:48
GBK wrote:
> For a concert homage to Weber in 1831,...
Thank you, Glenn.
Tony
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-01-13 13:05
GBK wrote,
>>The information concerning Weber's funeral comes from the most respected and complete biography of Weber:
>>
Carl Maria von Weber by John Warrack, (Macmillan 1968)
>>
Good enough for me, too! Thanx!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2006-01-13 14:34
The same information is to find in Pamela Weston's: "Clarinet virtuosi of the past", page 142.
Alphie
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-13 15:30
Alphie wrote:
> The same information is to find in Pamela Weston's: "Clarinet
> virtuosi of the past", page 142.
Alphie is correct. But since John Warrack's biography of Weber was written first (in 1968) before Weston's book (1971) I used that as my primary source ...GBK
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2006-01-13 15:45
That's a very logical conclusion. My note was only meant as additonal information and to flag for Pamela’s books. They're very interesting reading.
Alphie
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Author: Llewsrac
Date: 2006-01-13 20:25
Richard Wagner composed and conducted "Das Liebesmahl Der Apostel" (The Feast of Pentecoast), for adult chorus and large orchestra which he composed for a choral festival at Dresden in 1843, to his own text as always. The festival was to include all the male-voice choirs in Saxony, performed when Weber's remains were brought to Dresden from London. 1200 singers from all over Saxony gathered for the performance. Wagner wrote of the event,
" I was astonished at the comparatively feeble effect produced on my ear by this colossal human tangle of sounds. The conclusion at which I arrived was that these enormous choral undertakings are folly, and I never again felt inclined to repeat the experience."
Hojotoho!!!!!!!!!!
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