 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Wayne
Date: 2006-01-11 00:10
Could someone educate me regarding clarinets built in C ? Are the note fingerings different with this horm ? How does a clarinet built in C increase the choice of pieces I can chose from for clarinet. Hope this isn't to remedial for this board !
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-01-11 00:52
Nothing is too remedial for this board, Wayne. Glad you asked. That's how we learn stuff 
You'll find C clarinets with Boehm fingering system, the "norm" in North America. German system C clarinets are also available. Both are available by several makers. I own a plastic German system C clarinet that was made in Texas that plays rather well. I would describe the tone color of it as a little on the bright side.
You can play from sheet music without transposing, if that's any advantage to you, but I don't know that that in itself would really broaden your repertoir much. From what little I've gathered around here, there's not a lot of demand for C clarinet in symphonic works. If you like playing in combos that blend well with a slightly brighter clarinet sound, a C clarinet is fun to play.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-01-11 00:57
Well, not too much other than in the works of Beethoven, Rossini, and Russian music from the 1800's...
It sounds brighter than a Bb to us, but play the same thing alongside a Bb horn from behind the screen to a "non-clarinet" audience with the music played on each adjusted for the transposition, and they won't notice a thing. Ditto the "mello" sound of the A clarinet.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-11 00:58
I've owned a few C clarinets in the past. There are some classical pieces that require a C clarinet (although can be transposed for Bb). I bought one for playing in an orchestra that sometimes required one, plus my church pianist sometimes asked me to play right out of the hymnal with her and I don't transpose in my head very well anymore. When I was in school it was a no-brainer, but since I'm a bit older it's more of a task.
To answer your question (although Ron B did a good job), the C clarinet fingers exactly like a standard Bb. It's slightly bigger than an Eb and slightly smaller than a Bb, so it's a nice instrument.
Most are bright in tone (like Ron mentioned), although there are a few that have richer tones than others. I recommend the Patricola C in Grenadilla wood with a Chadash barrel.
You can use a standard Bb mouthpiece with them, although most of the custom mouthpiece makers who advertise on this board will make you one specifically for your instrument. I always used my same mouthpiece and did just fine with it.
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Author: hartt
Date: 2006-01-11 01:24
Thanks, Wayne, for reminding me.....I need to take mine out and noodle around on it.
I have a Leblanc and use my Bb mp.
Pieces to play?.....you can play all the Oboe parts you care to.
In one group, where an oboist was needed, I played the oboe parts.
In another group, I played 1st oboe when the oboist was playing English Horn.
Alot of fun and some great 'oboe' solos.
dennis
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-01-11 02:05
(Disclaimer the Forte' C clarinet is coming in 2006)
Good redux of the uses of the C clarinet by all. I just thought that before rushing out with "C" clarinet "want-me's" gleaming in your eyes that a pocketbook reality check might be in order. In doing my own research on C clarinets I found a wide range of sound quality and about a ten fold price range from $550 for the Amati C and >$4500.00 for a Buffet Prestige C clarinet - in the middle about $1500. for a new LeBlanc Noblet, $2500. for a Patricola, $3000. for a Leblanc Concerto, and $3500. for a Rossi. Older LeBlanc Noblets are favored by many players and can be had used for under $1000. but vary greatly in condition and playability (second hand impressions). I have tried to play at least 3 examples of each - not an easy task but with a lot of friends almost accomplished. The testing was probably biased because the instruments were chosen by pretty knowledgeable players and not a representative sample of factory production.
As noted, most players will use their own Bb mouthpiece but also noted are the specialty mouthpieces made by makers especially for the C clarinet of choice. This was a unique opportunity for me because most "C" clarinet owners did not have a good conception of how a 'good' "C" clarinet should sound (by their own admission) but chose their instruments mainly for pretty good intonation and secondarily for tonal qualities. To my ears even some of the more expensive C clarinets were quite shrill and exceptionally "Bright" (your definition and mine may differ). Perhaps choice of mouthpiece and/or barrel would improve these impressions - perhaps not. Many examples still had intonation problems in the upper clarion and altissimo registers. Since this is not a valid scientific study I will abstain from rating them.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2006-01-11 02:14
There are several other posts here and on the Ethnic Clarinet boards about C clarinets. A recent search found the following C clarinets currently available:
Buffet RC special order
Stephen Fox C
Allora / Arioso ASC105
Noblet 45C
Buffet E11C
Patricola CL7C
Amati 351C
Woodwind C
Orsi CL-21FB EV
Orsi CL-22D (German System) special order
Orsi CL-ALBSYS (Albert C or Bb) special order
Orsi CL-9SM (Mueller C or Bb) special order
Regards
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-11 02:23
A good C clarinet should play and sound like a small Bb clarinet, not like an instrument which is totally foreign to the clarinet family.
As implied in the above postings, C clarinets can often be markedly improved with a careful choice of mouthpiece and/or barrel. Although I use a specific C clarinet mouthpiece, a Bb mouthpiece is most commonly used.
And yes....playing the C clarinet does require "time behind the horn", especially in orchestra work where it is not as frequently used as (for example) the A or Eb clarinet...GBK
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-01-11 02:30
Thanks Ralph. I did try one Buffet E-11 "C" at about $1200 and one of Tom's Arioso "C" clarinets at about the same price - the Allora is a clone. The others I have not tried.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-11 02:37
There are many works in the standard orchestral repertoire where a C clarinet is called for, and you will find that most major symphonic clarinetists own one. For opera work it is all but required.
There are numerous pieces where the C clarinet is not only a life saver (Tchaikovsky - "Mozartiana") but traditionally used (Symphonie Fantastique / The Moldau / etc...)
Whether it is "proper" orchestral practice to transpose these parts to the Bb clarinet is another question in itself, and lends to its own discussion on performance practice...GBK
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2006-01-11 04:16
C Clarinets are a total blast to play. I use a Backunized RC prestige C clarinet all the time. A C clarinet doesn't have to be out of tune or bright or buzzy or any of that kind of thing. I think there tends to be a problem when people think that every kind of clarinet is supposed to sound like a Bb. I use mine primarily for playing transcriptions of old 78 rpm klezmer music. Lots of the doinas (improvizational cadenzas) that were played by Tarras and Brandwein were played on C clarinet. To play them on the Bb is to play on a different part of the clarinet than they did. You can learn them in a differnent key, then transpose them. But the sound of the C is a little more intense than a Bb and works better for some tunes.
As far as using it for classical music. When I've used it in orchestra tutti passages I found it much easier to project without playing as loud.
Now one place I have found that an inexpensive high grade student C clarinet would be indespensable- tiny 4thgrade female students that hands aren't big enough to cover the holes. I have 3 that when I've handed them my C to play their lessons on sounded really good! They can cover the holes it's eaiser to get a sound on. If I could get my hands on a good Student C clarinet, I would go to the band directors and have them rewrite some parts in C or let them play oboe parts in band. I think it would be an advantage for being able to start students ealier than 4th grade.
I've tried the Buffet E-11 C and I thought it was a really nice instrument. If one made a hodge to Vancouver my guess is that it would come back awsome. The Noblet C, I thought was a very out of tune instrument that I couldn't have enough work done to make that a good instrument. That instrument still costs more than an E11. So do the other LeBlanc Cs I've tried. The C clarinet that I want is by Steve Fox and it has a Low D, which is great for when you're in "the sadest of all posible keys" I've played it in Salt lake City, and At College park 2 years ago and it was awsome! His Basset horn was "like budda".
I'm looking very much forward to trying the Forte C I think it could fit a very nice nitch.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-01-11 05:00
Wayne, what are you planning to use a C for?
My C enables me to play fiddle tunes with fiddle players, and basically in any kind of folk ensemble with players who are all playing concert key instruments (and are usually befuddled as to "why the clarinet is in Bb"). Of course, you can transpose to a Bb or an A, but this requires you to develop transposing skills -- SUPERIOR transposing skills, because of tempi and "notey-ness", in the case of fiddle tunes -- and given the common folk fiddle keys, you'd want an A more than a Bb. There certainly are players out there who can do this by sight and/or by ear, and boy, are they great players, but as for the rest of us, it's a choice between writing EVERYTHING out or buying a C.
I play a Patricola CL7 grenadilla which I like. I use the barrels supplied with the horn. You get two of them, one a mm shorter than the other. I tried a friend's Tom Ridenour plastic model the other day and I thought it sounded as nice and sweet as my Patricola. It's keywork wasn't as nice, though. Sturdy, but the tone holes wanted to cut ridges in my finger tips. But it's a heck of a lot cheaper and a decent horn.
Steve Epstein
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-01-11 06:35
"I think it would be an advantage for being able to start students ealier than 4th grade."
I started clarinet at the end of first grade, on an Eb clarinet
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-11 06:46
"How does a clarinet built in C increase the choice of pieces I can chose from for clarinet?"
Your choice of pieces is unlimited on C clarinet - this means you can play pretty much all flute or oboe pieces of your choosing, or any music written in concert pitch (including violin music or vocal music in treble clef) without having to transpose.
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2006-01-11 15:18
I got an Amati C last year. I take it to choir; since when I sing I'm not good at reading (and I'm the choir director [Why? That's another story.], I use it to demo the parts. I took it to the Strawberry Festival last fall and was able to sit in traditional music jams and play some. The C has made easier these unconventional opportunities for me.
But best of all, last night at our town orchestra rehearsal we read the Cosi fan Tutte Overture. I played it as written, on the C. I doupt that anyone noticed, but I enjoyed it.
As L. Omar Henderson notes, I don't have a concept of what it should sound like. It does have a different voice. I enjoy listening to it and developing my own concept of it's sound. If I had a teacher who played a C, if I could listen to recordings with clearly identified C parts, if I could go to concerts regularly where I knew a C was being played, then I would hear and develop a C concept to aim for. But it's fun to just play and see what comes out. And I like the sound I get. It is not a Bb or A!
Wayne Thompson
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-11 21:58
I also filled in a gap a few times with the C as the oboe part. Doesn't sound a thing like an oboe, but the director was happy, so there's that...
Also, I agree that to transpose a C clarinet part (like Beethoven) on a Bb is not the best situation, it can be done in a pinch--like when you're overseas and your C is in its case back in the states.
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Author: Wayne
Date: 2006-01-11 22:28
WOW, what a terrific source of information. I'm returning to the instrument after many years away. I played in Jr. High and High school - always did well and held first chair throughout. I tried to keep up while attending UCSD, but the horn took a back seat to my studies there, and it was left at my parents house for safe keeping. I tried lessons a while ago, but the teacher wouldn't let me learn pieces that I brought to him and I sort of lost interest in him and the horn again. The question really arises from a recent visit to a sheet music store in my town. The clarinet section was reasonable, but took up about 5% of the stores floor space, so I browsed some piano books, oboe music and others but realized that everything would need to be transposed (ugh). A C clarinet just seems to open up so many choices !
Perhaps I should pose this as a new question, but does anyone know a good site or text for refreshing my skills for "counting out " a piece ? I find that this area of my playing/skills, lags behind the others.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-01-11 22:48
Wayne wrote:
>I tried lessons a while ago, but the
> teacher wouldn't let me learn pieces that I brought to him and
> I sort of lost interest in him and the horn again.
That's curious. What pieces were they and why wouldn't he teach you with those?
Steve Epstein
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Author: Wayne
Date: 2006-01-11 22:57
Sonata for Clarinet and Piano by Rudolph, Archduke of Austria and Ralph Williams English Folksongs. The sonata was a piece I heard Ricardo Morales play on a CD and prompted me to pick up the instrument again. I went to a great deal of trouble to find this piece and really wanted to learn it - I can play the first two movements now and love it ! I went back for lessons, about a months worth or more, but resented his " blowing off " my desires and really didn't take the lessons or the teacher seriously. I'm sure he's a good teacher, but not for me. Perhaps he was not used to working with adults ? Tried speaking with him, but he was firm in his views, and I guess I was just as firm in mine.
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Author: Wayne
Date: 2006-01-11 23:01
Steve: Just read my post and realized that I didn't answer your question...
I'm not really sure why he didn't want to help me with these pieces. As I recall, he didn't think they were "right" for me. It seemed to me that he was set on the work I should do, perhaps out of habit. We worked out of a method book that he likely used with all his clarinet students. I don't doubt for a moment that he couln't have helped me with these pieces, he was a terrific player who mostly taught teens as far as I caould see.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-01-12 02:25
Shop around for another teacher, Wayne. That's my opinion.
Mr. Terrificplayer was obviously not in tune with you. You're a bit beyond the teen set. With your musical background and mature interests a [mature] teacher should be able to help you with whatever you wish to do.
- rn b -
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2006-01-12 10:37
I'm playing now two pieces that use C clarinet:
Reicha quintet, op 91, Nº 4
Eler quartet (I don't remember the opus), for flute, clarinet, horn and bassoon.
I play with my Buffet E11, with good blend with the ensamble.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-12 10:51
To add to Ralph's list, http://www.myatt.co.uk/cla list four C clarinets made by Leblanc, in addition to the Noblet. Only two of the Leblancs are shown as regularly in stock.
Tom asks for an inexpensive C clarinet for young children. There is always the Lyons clarinet. Good enough for Julian Bliss to start on, as I understand.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-12 13:54
I owned a pretty good Noblet C. And, I play-tested an E-11 C clarinet that was a very nice one with a Chadash barrel.
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Author: hartt
Date: 2006-01-12 19:17
Brenda.....thanks for the 'support' on a Noblet C. I have one. ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
For those who are looking for one, deals can be found. Mine came off ebay several yrs ago from an auction that had no bids. The seller, who turned out to be a contract player with the Toronto symphony, purchased it for one performance and after a year of it sitting in a closet, felt he no longer had a need for it. I paid $450 ($800 auction price) and he included a spare bbl and 2 day air shipping from Canada (that was a surprise). It has a melow voice and superb intonation for a C; enough so that it's been borrowed and played in the Tucson symphony.
Prior to purchasing mine, I play tested an E11 and didn't like it at all. The sound was brittle, throat intonation was as poor as some E flats I've played and the keywork didn't feel comfortable......notably going from throat F# to A.
At that time, I had a convo with Francois Kloc of Buffet about the lack of availability of E11 C's in the USA. He mentioned that the majorty Buffet manufacturers, are destined for the European market; citing that youngsters there learn on a C because of their smaller hands and it's free blowing tendency, yet utilizing a Bb mouthpiece.
So, like any intended instrument purchase, shop around and ask for a trial basis.....maybe there's a closeout, NOS Espirit out there somewhere ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
d
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