 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ah Clem
Date: 2006-01-08 17:36
I am still struggling with my Selmer Bundy. It has been stuffy, squeaky, and extremely hard to play. This is in contrast to my Simba, which has poor tone, but is extremely easy to play.
I had noticex a "buzzy" trill key on the Bundy so I took it apart. The pad is felt, and had a coating of something not unlike nail polish or airplane dope on the side which faces the port on the clarinet. The coating was partially peeling off. I removed the coating, cleaned out the port with a q-tip, and re-assembled the clarinet.
The buzzing stopped.
The clarinet suddenly became much easier to play, with a large reduction in squeaking. I have removed this coating from several othe keys, but am still experiencing some squeaking in the Clarion register.
I am now determined to repad this thing myself (I am very mechanically inclined-unfortunately, this is instead of being musically inclined...).
I have seen re-padding kits in the local music stores. Does anyone have any recommendations with regard to the best material to use?
Thank you all in advance.
Ah Clem
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-01-08 22:28
I think your horn is way overdue for a little attention 
It sounds to me from what you write, Clem, that you've been removing the bladder skin from your pads. If a skin is torn or 'loose' it often will cause buzzing. Getting rid of the flappy skin will stop the buzzing. It will also allow the felt base to deteriorate quickly. You can buy new pads from MusicMedic (individually or in quantities) or Ferree's (by the dozen or 100s) with just about any kind of skin covering you want, natural or synthetic. They also sell other supplies you'll need to re-pad your horn.
Just like learning to play, re-padding takes practice; I'd advise anyone starting out to order a few extra pads.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-09 09:23
There's no reason why you can't use leather pads instead, these are much more durable than skin pads and easier to fit as well.
Cork pads are the most difficult to fit for a novice as they have to be seated perfectly due to them having very little give, and if slightly open they won't close under finger or spring tension like the squishier leather pads.
Personally I like cork pads best as they are more precise in operation and perfect regulation can be achieved, and will outlast the other two types, whereas skin or leather pads have a certain amount of give in them.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-01-10 02:47
I suggest that you spend your first $73 wisely on THE COMPLETE WOODWIND REPAIR MANUAL, From the shop at http://www.napbirt.org/
"However, for the upper joint keys, at least the register key, I'd use cork. (got mine from a number of decommissioned wine corks - some corks have near grainless areas and are good for two to three pads."
I've seen a lot of wine corks, but don't think I've seen one any where near good enough to trust as a clarinet pad. There should be NO grain/pores. Shaping a decent pad from a chunk of cork is also a challenge.
Far better to buy cork pads if that is what you choose, but I certainly would not suggest cork pads for a beginner repairer except for the register vent.
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Author: Ah Clem
Date: 2006-01-10 04:42
Thank you all for the information.
I have a question regarding the register pad. The pad on my Bundy, when closed, is not paralled to the port that it covers. This seems to make a very poor seal.
It seems logical that the pad, when closed, should lie flat against the port. I am wondering if this is adding to the squeaking (the register does not seem to close as consistantly, or as rapidly as the one on the Simba.
Also, I picked up the cotton/skin pads today locally. The person in the store sold me a special glue for it, and said that it needs to be heated. The glue, which came with essentially no instructions, says to use it "hot or cold".
Is there anything that I should be looking for in terms of getting a good seal, other than a good, centered, flat, fit?
Can anyone elaborate on this?
Thank you all again.
Ah Clem
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-01-10 07:04
Ah Clem -- You asked, "Is there anything that I should be looking for in terms of getting a good seal, other than a good, centered, flat, fit?"
Well, that's exactly what you should be looking for
Basically, you want the pad to touch the tonehole all around and make contact all around at exactly the same time using as light a touch as you possibly can. There are also a few other things that usually come to light as you proceed.
From what you've written, it sounds as though you haven't tried this before(?). I realize I may be jumping to conclusions but that's the feeling I get. If this is a new venture for you -- is there a technician in your neighborhood who can show you how to install a pad? *Offer to Pay* for the "lesson", of course. Having a working knowledge of the basics and hands on doing it a few times will save you an awwwwwful lot of frustration and wasted time (not to mention spoiled pads and hypertension).
To seat a pad properly you'll do well to have some basic tools:
*alcohol lamp (and/or resistance 'heat gun'),
*pad slick (leveling tool),
*feeler or leak light (preferably both),
*needle to prick the pad(s)
*a spring hook is a great time-saver
*assorted good quality screwdrivers,
to name a few.
also--
*sheet cork. At least a couple of thicknesses, for tenons and keys.
*industrial razor blades (pkgs of 100 available in paint depts everywhere)
also...
*key bending pliers are a real help and a swedging tool (or ask your tech to do those tasks for you)
With these implements at hand, you'll be able to install a pad, in most cases, and make it seal good, flat, positive, centered, no wobble or shift.
Then do the next one, and the next, and....
Spring problems, pivot and hinge screw adjustments, post (pillar) problems and other things that usually show up during a repad can be dealt with as they arise or you can ask your tech to remedy them for you as you go and you just carry on with the padding part.
Which ever way you decide to handle it, it's a great learning experience and will in the long run pay off in both satisfaction of having accomplished something most players are not eager to attempt and the cost savings by doing your own instrument maintenance. Trust me, if you can re-pad your own instrument you'll know it inside out from top to bottom and nothing *mechanically* about a clarinet will ever surprise you (on or off a live gig) again [ummm... yeah -- rrriiight]....
- ron b -
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-01-10 09:51
"...The glue, which came with essentially no instructions, says to use it "hot or cold"...."
This sounds suspiciously like shellac dissolved into alcohol to make a thick paste. Trade name possibly "Mico"?
If so, in my opinion and experience, it would be one of the most difficult of adhesives for a beginner to use. Several decades ago it was commonly used, and typically pads were surrounded with a gooey, oozey brown mess, and poorly seated.
Probably the easiest would be cream coloured stick shellac, (or amber for tan coloured pads), or J L Smith's hot-melt glue pellets.
I still suggest you should get that book I suggested, or pay to work closely with a KNOWLEDGABLE technician.
IMHO you are biting off a lot more than you realise.
IMO buying the pads and the glue is about 1/500 of the way towards doing a satisfactory job.
But if it is your wish, go for it anway, and I wish you well.
Post Edited (2006-01-10 09:52)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2006-01-10 13:07
I just got a bunch of Buffet Gore-tex pads on my set of Prestige's.
Amazing - very quiet, and seal really well too.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-01-10 14:41
i 2nd the book suggestion. read a lot before you mess with your horn.
or get a cheap clunker off the auction site whos name shall not be mentioned, and practice on that.
another book to consider is 'instrument repair for the music teacher', by burton stanley. amazon.com carries it. it describes the basic process.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-10 15:28
I use clear (except it's amber in colour) shellac with cork and brown leather pads, and white shellac with white leather pads (and skin pads if I ever have to use those poxy things).
Get the finest, thinnest cigarette papers you can find for feeler gauges, cut a triangle from one (and make sure it's the side without the glue on it) tapering to a point, and tear the tip off leaving a blunt end no more than 2mm wide, use this end as a feeler gauge to check the drag between the pad and the rim of the tonehole - only using LIGHT finger pressure to close open-standing keys (not forcing them closed) and the closed ones will be closed under their own spring tension.
I like to put the pads in so when checked with the feeler gauge, the front of the pad (furthest from the hinge) is slightly HEAVIER than the back (nearest the hinge) - this way they won't feel squishy.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-01-10 21:11
"I like to put the pads in so when checked with the feeler gauge, the front of the pad (furthest from the hinge) is slightly HEAVIER than the back (nearest the hinge) - this way they won't feel squishy."
Chris....do you think this is the best way both for keys that close by spring action and for those that close by finger action?
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-10 22:26
I've found this gives the best results on both types of keys mentioned, and even more so on the large pads. But I do mean slightly heavier at the front than the back, and not very light (or only just touching) at the back and heavy at the front (causing a huge impression at that point only).
But ideally the pads still have to be of the correct set - that's when equal amount of pad sidewall is showing around the circumference when the pad is in the key cup, and when properly seated.
I'm trying to think of a simple way to demonstrate this without a clarinet so anyone can try it out.
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Author: Ah Clem
Date: 2006-01-10 23:33
Wow,
Thank you all for the wealth of information.
I do realize that I am potentially biting off more than I can chew here, but I am used to working on fine machinery (model trains and R/C helicopters) so I think I am up for it (by comparision, the clarinet has very few working parts, and will not crash and destroy itself if I make an error-at least I hope that it won't).
Worst case scenario, I have to pay to get it repadded, but I truly think that I should be completely familiar with clarinet construction and assembly, if I am at all serious about this.
I feel a bit foolish in that I was busily removing the very thing that causes the pads to seal, but it also seems clear that this membranes should not have been flapping loose or torn.
At any rate, I am taking all of your advice into account and am very grateful to you all for your input.
I will let you know how it goes.
Ah Clem
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Author: Ah Clem
Date: 2006-01-20 18:02
Update:
I carefully read everyone's posts above. I also recieved a very detailed, very clear explanation of how to repad from one forum member (for which I am eternally grateful).
I took the coward's way out and, for the moment, only replaced the few pads that I had either removed the bladders skin from or that were suspect.
I also changed the one on the register key. This one bothered me, as it was a cork pad, but it quite obviously did not seal, so I replaced it.
All of the new pads are of the cottong-bladder type.
I am happy to report, that the patient (the Selmer-Bundy) survived and is now quite playable for the first time since I aquired it. I can "cross the break" quite easily now, which was pretty tough before.
Thanks again, to all of you who were kind enough to provide guidance!
Ah Clem
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