 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2006-01-09 14:03
I've noticed that fewer people play clarinet as a hobby. We all know how much dedication it takes to get good enough to make music.
Is it the demands of the instrument that keep people from practicing and playing? Or is it people's busy lives: careers, kids, or money? Or...?
Ron Jr.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-09 14:21
It would be hard to know how many people play clarinet as a hobby. But, if it is true that the number is diminishing, I would attribute it partly to the lack of importance placed on playing musical instruments in schools these days. It's a big fight in my part of the country to get the proper funding and interest in music in schools. Or, it could also be the things you've mentioned above. Playing an instrument requires a lot of dedication and time. Again, I wonder how one would find out how many people play as a hobby?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 14:32
Maybe Air Guitar is easier to learn.
I don't think it's just the clarinet (which isn't as fancy and cool as other instruments like a didgeridoo. It doesn't even have a display or an USB port).
Making music requires a certain degree of commitment. Commitments contradict today's "noncommittal arbitrariness" and the own laziness. It's easier to couch-potato than walk the dog or practice for half an hour.
Oh my. I sound like my parents.
BTW: Count me as a hobbyist.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2006-01-09 14:33)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-01-09 14:54
Fine thread, Ron, "If I Were a Bell, I'd Toll", [where did that come from ??]. I agree with the above comments, and observe that with increasing age [mine etc] some of us [who remember WW II] are becomming fewer rather rapidly. Rite hear in River City, we have several "struggling" duplicate bridge clubs, with very few players less than 70 years, sometimes its hard to get the min. 3 tables !! A ?similar shift in hobby activity to that in music, specif. clarinets, perhaps sports are one of the causes?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-01-09 15:03
Most folks I know do nothing. No aerobic exercise, no self-made music, or crafts.
Most seem to veg out and forward silly emails.
Most also seem too lazy to do their own information collection, but will listen to media demogoguery.
It seems, too that all "classical" instruments, except piano (kids' lessons) are dying out infavor of air and electric guitars. I have to admit that my wind horns cannot make some of the interesting sounds that an electric guit is capable of.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-01-09 15:07
What Brenda Said!!!
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Barton62
Date: 2006-01-09 15:15
I hope hobbyists are not a dying breed. I am one and I absolutely love playing. My kids do not show any interest in playing the clarinet. I too think that the lack of emphasis on the fine arts in public schools has contributed to the dwindling of clarinet players. It is hard in this part of the country to adequately fund ANY music program. I am a choral parent and we pay an up-front fee at the first of the year, but that still often does not provide enough money. I think band parents are in the same pickle.
Lack of commitment is also a problem. We live in what I call a "magic pill" world where many want things fixed or accomplished in the moment and are not willing to work hard for their achievements. Sad commentary on society.
I'm sure there are many of us out there who play and work for the sheer enjoyment of the music.
Leisa
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2006-01-09 15:23
It's probably the American culture that is influenced so heavily by the prevalence of TV and video games. These activities are as addictive as any chemical. But I still work with my kids and now grandkids, teaching them sax and soon clarinet for my granddaughter.
Sometimes the best you can do is help those the closest to you. Oh, and then of course contribute to the arts. Don’t get me started about the difference between contributing to save pets and the arts! ;o)
(Um, don't tell that to my 16 year old cat and 10 year old dog.)
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2006-01-09 15:24)
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Author: Fred
Date: 2006-01-09 16:46
I think part of the problem is that the style of playing taught in schools does not match the style of playing required for many of the potential hobbyists intent on "playing for fun" these days.
I see hobbyists falling into two categories: those that want to play the etudes and classical literature; and those that want to play "fun" music (I think you can understand the distinction I'm trying to make. Let's not make this an issue of semantics.) Those that fall into the first group will follow the same regimen on clarinet that pro classical players do, but will usually achieve a lower level of proficiency. Those that fall into the second group would rather be able to sit in with a group of other players, ad lib, use vibrato, and read chord charts. Whether it be Dixieland, Big Band, or pop soloing, the normal teaching regimen often doesn't prepare a clarinetist for success. If you're handed a chord chart that an ensemble is playing and it's in E, how many clarinetists are ready to play along?
I do realize that many classically trained players will develop enough understanding to do just what I have suggested. But there are lots of other players that came up in band programs are fairly proficient in covering a written part, but totally lost without a page full of notes. And lots of hobbyists would like to play without the page full of notes.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-01-09 17:11
About 15 years ago the decline of clarinet in our music school has started. Everyone suddenly decided to play flute, guitar or piano. (There was a famous flute player on TV !!),
but since a few years suddenly the interest for clarinet is back. We now have several younger kids (9-11 years) that started. Number of clarinet players now seems to equal sax players, while flute is drastically going done.
To be honest, we - members of a wind orchestra - 'talked' our kids into playing the clarinet, we need lots of them you know :-). But once started they seem to have at least as much fun as the others (flute, sax,...) and with some luck they'll be more devoted and finish the good work.
Going for Clarinet is seriuous business, you know ;-), not just messing around with a TV-hyped instrument, but playing a mysterious black beauty.
Anyhow, last weekend we had 2 concerts with a wind band of 80 players of which 16 B clarinets, 2 basses and 1 Eb - age between 14 and 60 years old. 4 more to come next week and join the party, so we're almost there...
Count me in as hobbyist too, but to be honest ... it running out of control and becoming an addiction, that I'm trying the spread ...
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-01-09 17:30
Ron....I wonder where you get the impression or data that supports your premise. I'm not convinced there is such a decline.
Bob Draznik
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-09 17:53
I often feel that as a clarinetist, I am fighting an uphill battle which I fear we are slowly losing.
We compete for our rightful musical place against guitars, electronic keyboards, saxophones, etc...
The advent of the electric keyboard has dramatically hurt the learning of wind instruments - "push a button, use one finger, play a song". No pre-study required.
The bulk of our musical repertoire is more than 100 years old and the general public can barely name more than 2 famous clarinetists.
Watch any "popular" music program - not a clarinet in sight.
Scan a trade paper for "musicians seeking other musicians", and it is almost unheard of to see someone looking to find a clarinetist.
Worst of all, students even question if the clarinet is a relevant instrument by today's music standards.
Are we all still just keeping a dinosaur alive? ...GBK
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-09 18:10
GBk wrote: 'Scan a trade paper for "musicians seeking other musicians", and it is almost unheard of to see someone looking to find a clarinetist.'
That could be evidence that nobody wants clarinet players any more. Equally, it could be evidence that there is plenty of demand, but an even greater supply.
What instruments are sought in the trade press? Is it all guitars and drums - which would support your interpretation? Or do you also find ads for violas, bassoons and horns, which would tend to support the alternative interpretation?
As for the electric keyboard, what I find more worrying is the number of parents who appear to think that buying their kids a cheap'n'nasty keyboard is a viable alternative to sending them to proper piano lessons.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Barton62
Date: 2006-01-09 18:12
I do not think we are keeping a dinosaur alive. I think those of us who still play do it for the love of the instrument. Students may question the relevance of the instrument by today's music standards, but there will always be someone who will fall in love with the dark, rich tones and the difficulty of learning the instrument.
I say we all just continue to play and encourage the next generation to carry on the tradition.
If I am keeping the dinosaur alive, I'm having a ball!
Leisa
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-09 18:28
What bothers me, and perhaps is a bother to some of you, is the trend toward using electronic keyboards with "clarinet" sounds instead of real instruments. Some of my friends who are recording artists (vocalists) have actually used the keyboard to imitate the clarinet sound on their recent CD releases. I realize their producers may have said, "let the keyboards do some of these instruments to save a buck."
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-01-09 18:32
My experience, for the past 20 years is that there are always been more clarinet players than position for them. Wether professional or amateur, orchestra band or chamber group, the positions are usually filled and many people are trying to get them. I cannot deny the almost death of the clarinet in Jazz, but in classical music, I see very little change. The whole classival music scene may undergo an identity crisis, but I have not seen the proportion of clarinet players change.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-09 18:39
David Peacham wrote:
> What instruments are sought in the trade press?
> Is it all guitars and drums - which would support your
> interpretation? Or do you also find ads for violas,
> bassoons and horns, which would tend to support
> the alternative interpretation?
Without any official tally, it seems that the most sought after instrumentalists in the trades are bass guitarists, followed by drummers and guitar players.
With horn players, saxophone would be first, followed by trumpet/trombone.
Oddly, very few flute players are ever asked for.
Clarinetists? Can't remember the last time I saw one the was wanted...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 18:49
I can't say whether the initial premise is true (in the US, the only country with which I'm familiar), but my own observations reinforce Ron Jr.'s.
I would add these personal observations:
1) Attendance at live music events of any form (other than rock or country & western music concerts) has been undergoing a steady decline around my area (the U.S. mid-Atlantic region) for at least 15-20 years. This has been especially prevalent in the genres of jazz and classical music, as well as concert bands (which can sort of be lumped in with 'classical', I think).
2) School support of musical curricula and 'during-school' band and orchestra activities has dropped off dramatically in the last decade or more. When I was a student nearly every public school had school-funded musical classes and groups which were offered as regular elective classes. Now the rule rather than the exception seems to be that bands and orchestras have to be self-funded through donations, fundraisers, grants, etc; and many of the programs are extracurricular (after school) and are not provided as regular classes during the school day.
3) I am or have been a member of quite a few community bands and orchestras in the area, and I see a very definite aging trend among the players (in general -- as always, there are exceptions). I see a greater percentages of older adults in these groups and fewer and fewer young people coming in. I see this trend in the audiences at concerts too, but it's not as striking as within the groups themselves.
4) When I was in my teens and twenties many of the popular music groups employed 'horn players' --- granted this was more often saxophones (and even flutes) than clarinets, but still within the woodwind family. Nowadays its a rare thing to be able to play in a 'horn band'.
5) Another formerly common outlet, the jazz 'big band' or combos (ranging from '20s-30's traditional or swing to modern types) are also dwindling, both in opportunities to perform and to audience demand. I've just gone yet another New Year's Eve without a gig, something which was unheard of twenty years ago (when EVERY musician in town, no matter how bad, had at least one gig opportunity that night). I play in a really good contemporary big band (with a long history behind it, too) that has gone half a year without a paid gig. Twenty years ago a band of this caliber would have gigged steadily at least once a month, maybe much more.
I don't have any insight as to cultural phenomena or trends that have created the current situation, nor do I have any solutions. I just feel very sorry for all the idealistic young people who have dreams of making a career out of playing the clarinet (or woodwind playing in any form) --- because it's one tough road to hoe, and doesn't appear to be getting any easier with the passage of time.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-09 19:08
David S, you wrote: "I see a very definite aging trend among the players (in general -- as always, there are exceptions). I see a greater percentages of older adults in these groups and fewer and fewer young people coming in."
As ever, there may be more than one way to interpret the data:
1) There are no youngsters learning instruments. (Which I think is your interpretation).
2) The band has a full complement of players, who are aging as people tend to do. There are few vacancies to be filled.
3) Youngsters take one look at the band, see that everyone is twice their age, and go look elsewhere.
I'm reminded of a cycling group I occasionally ride with. It is dwindling, and its age profile is increasing. Why? Not because nobody rides bikes any more. Simply because few twenty-year-olds want to ride with a group of fifty-year-olds.
In the band I play in, the strongest players are nearly all younger than I am, and the weakest are nearly all older. Don't know quite what to conclude from that.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 19:20
Last time I had class (it's located in a Jazz school) I checked the billboard. Singers, bassists, guitarreros are actively sought, for pianists and stringers the vacant/wanting positions are about 1:1, brass and woodwinds seem to be as esoteric as didgeridoos (is that a woodwind, btw?)
I read about youth orchestras having problems getting new blood, especially in urban areas. In rural areas it's better where the young often are in a sports or music society, mainly because of the lack of competing recreational offers.
Last but not least: keeping a band together is a full time job. Not many people have the enthusiasm to dedicate nearly 100% of their spare time for the necessary administrative and organisational tasks.
Maybe Bollywood creates a blockbuster featuring a mouth- and eyewatering clarinetist (indian army horn!) and all of a sudden everyone wants one too...
--
Ben
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-09 19:42
Like David Spiegelthal, I also play (lead alto sax and clarinet) in a very good contemporary big band. The band has a long history behind it (almost 30 years) and is fortunate to work as often and as steady as we do.
However, for the 2nd straight New Year's Eve - no gig.
Performing outlets and public demand for live music is definitely dwindling.
Long gone are the days when we had to turn down New Year's Eve gigs due to either a better offer or being previously booked.
I fondly remember one New Year's Eve where I played 3 gigs in one evening - a Dixie septet dinner party, a New Year's Eve dinner/dance and an after hours jazz club combo.
The "good old days" ...GBK
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-01-09 19:58
I’d agree with Brenda and David S. When I was in elementary and high school, all you had to do to be in the band was sign up. Our high school band was over 60 pieces, and we had a good dance band on the side. Band class was every day for 45 minutes. We played at the games (home and away), pep rallies, band competitions, school dances, concerts and on and on. We had to pay for any private lessons “on the side”, but that was it.
The high school my daughter will be attending has about 1000 students (twice the size of the one I went to) and has 15 band members, all of whom pay a hefty “activity fee”, then have to chip in for band trips and “extra activities”. At the elementary school my daughter attended last year, there was an excellent arts program, including band every day. She was a very enthusiastic clarinet player and quickly advanced to second chair. This year that school has doubled the size of their band and is still turning away students. The interest is there. To play in the band at the school my daughter now attends, we paid a monthly fee and the band met on Monday nights and early Saturday mornings. Needless to say, she, and most of the other students lost interest pretty quickly.
The arts in general, and music in particular, don’t seem to be priorities in schools today. What’s just as strange is that, as a working engineer who volunteers in the schools, I don’t see that math and science are priorities in most schools either. Sports don’t have this problem, at least where I am. There are plenty of baseball, basketball, football, soccer, volleyball, tennis, golf and on and on, programs. All of which are reasonably well funded. I guess the question is priorities, and theirs don’t match ours.
Sure, making a living in professional music is not likely. Does that mean that the programs are a waste of money? Hardly! How many of the kids in high school sports programs will make it into the USTA or NBA? Many studies have shown that active arts programs improve overall school performance. Why is it that fewer and fewer schools have them?
As for our community band, we have an active high school mentoring program. Also, our local college has an excellent music department, and some of the students play in the band for the practice/experience. We are one of the few community bands with an even spread of young and old. However, without the K-12 schools kindling kid's interest, the future isn’t good.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-09 20:10
I'm open to correction on this, but I'm not aware that the UK has any tradition at all of band classes in school time. There are class music lessons, but these involve singing and listening to recordings, or maybe playing recorders if you have been really naughty. Schools may offer instrumental tuition on a one-to-one or small group basis, and may allow pupils to skip the occasional academic class to attend, but I have never heard of a UK school where large number of pupils routinely spent 45 minutes per day on organised music. (I'm excluding a very small number of specialist schools here.)
Does that mean that the UK cannot fill its professional orchestras? Hardly.
Does it mean that a smaller proportion of the UK population, compared to the US population, has ever learnt a wind instrument? I suspect it does.
Does it mean that a smaller proportion of the UK population, compared to the US population, has ever learnt an instrument of some sort? I'm not so sure. When I was a kid, a very substantial proportion of my classmates had piano lessons.
Does it mean that the UK population appreciates music less than the US population? Buys fewer records? Attends fewer concerts? I have absolutely no idea.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 20:22
David Peacham,
Going back to your initial posting, I think that all three of your possible interpretations are valid, and exist simultaneously in various degrees. I'd be willing to bet that a vicious cycle has developed in which fewer young people are taking up the clarinet to begin with, while the few remaining positions in community groups are jealously hoarded by the older players; and those younger players that do come in to 'audition' the band are scared away by the sea of gray heads there. I hope nobody takes offense to this -- but I think there is some truth to the scenario.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-01-09 20:41
It sounds like nearly all of us have concluded about the same declines, I also remember when I played Chr parties and NY gigs. I have printed out the words to "Those Were the Days, My Friend", and "Is That All There Is" which is more than enough '"nostalgia" for quite a while !! SO, what can we do, individually/jointly to reverse these down-trends ?? I'm glad to see the stock markets go up, what else can we do? Hope for "sanity"? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-09 20:51
Tony Beck wrote:
> Sports don’t have this problem, at least where I am.
> There are plenty of baseball, basketball, football, soccer,
> volleyball, tennis, golf and on and on, programs.
> All of which are reasonably well funded. I guess the
> question is priorities, and theirs don’t match ours.
More people come to watch one Saturday afternoon high school footbal game than attend a year's worth of high school music concerts.
This sad fact is not lost on school boards and administrators.
In this era of taxpayer funding of school budgets, successful sports programs bring notoriety to a school district and help pass budgets...GBK
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-01-09 21:00
Attachment: MyBand.jpg (226k)
I was interested in GBK's comment regarding demand; i.e.: "With horn players, saxophone would be first, followed by trumpet/trombone."
That was the case when I was invited to join a swing quartet (keyboard, string bass, drums, et moi) about 10 years ago - all they wanted was my tenor sax. I got bored and often switched to clarinet, then transposed the group's entire library so that I could play it on alto as well. The interesting thing was how well the clarinet was received. It makes me wonder if it's just kind of "forgotten" by band leaders or listeners, who will like it if it's offered.
Hans (swing band leader in a previous life, now a hobby clarinet and sax player)
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Author: clarispark
Date: 2006-01-09 21:07
Well, I have to consider myself a hobbyist now. I'm a former music student, who has since left the music program at my college to study history. I still play clarinet in the symphonic band at my school, and plan to as long as I'm a student here.
There are many other students who are studying other things who play clarinet at my college, either in one of the concert bands or in the marching band. Maybe they're not dying out in this part of the world, at least in the 18-22 age group.
There were a few clarinet hobbyists in my hometown, but our musical community was quite small. I can think of perhaps four people there who were in their adult years, playing clarinet in the chamber orchestra or other ensembles.
"I look at my clarinet sometimes and I think, I wonder what's going to come out of there tonight? You never know." --Acker Bilk
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 22:19
And Squidward's ludicrous clarinet playing on "Spongebob Squarepants" certainly hasn't boosted the prestige of this instrument in the minds of my children........
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 22:21
ARRGH! I HATE THAT SHOW!
(my older daughter taped a Spongebob poster on her door, probably just to annoy me)
--
Ben
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Author: Barton62
Date: 2006-01-09 22:35
I agree that Squidward has done NOTHING for the prestige of the instrument. I didn't sound that bad when I was learning to play!
Leisa
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 22:44
I hate to say it, but perhaps Squidward represents the image of the clarinet in the minds of the uninformed general public. What kid would want to take up the instrument and face the ridicule of his/her peers after watching this popular (in the US) TV show? This is yet another real problem we face in promoting our instrument and our music.
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Author: Barton62
Date: 2006-01-09 22:47
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> I hate to say it, but perhaps Squidward represents the image of
> the clarinet in the minds of the uninformed general public.
> What kid would want to take up the instrument and face the
> ridicule of his/her peers after watching this popular (in the
> US) TV show? This is yet another real problem we face in
> promoting our instrument and our music.
David,
I am in complete agreement with you. I wonder if the writer of this cartoon tried to play at some point in his/her life and was unable to master the instrument. Hmmm.......
Leisa
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 22:49
Now that I mention it..... .......contrast Squidward's clarinet shrieking on Spongebob Squarepants with young Lisa Simpson's very hip baritone sax playing on another (formerly?) popular American cartoon series, "The Simpsons". There is very clearly a different perception in the U.S. of the relative 'coolness' or 'nerdiness' of sax players vs. clarinet players, at least as reflected in our popular culture. We need to fight this, guys and gals!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 22:56
...especially when I read that "Spongebob once used Squidward's clarinet to unclog his toilet."...
--
Ben
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Author: Barton62
Date: 2006-01-09 23:17
Seriously, maybe we should encourage the teaching of jazz clarinet along with the traditional classic clarinet. I have never tried to attempt jazz clarinet. I took one semester of private instruction in college and it was never suggested that I think out of the box and play jazz.(I am classically trained. I wouldn't even know how to begin to get a jazzy, broad sound like Pete Fountain.) This might be a way to encourage young students to try the clarinet. It might change the perception that the clarinet is for snobs or geeks, such as Squidward!
Leisa
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 23:36
Maybe we should encourage to use the clarinet for music other than jazz and classic...
--
Ben
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-01-10 00:07
You all look like Paul Desmond
hans wrote:
> I was interested in GBK's comment regarding demand; i.e.: "With
> horn players, saxophone would be first, followed by
> trumpet/trombone."
>
> That was the case when I was invited to join a swing quartet
> (keyboard, string bass, drums, et moi) about 10 years ago - all
> they wanted was my tenor sax. I got bored and often switched
> to clarinet, then transposed the group's entire library so that
> I could play it on alto as well. The interesting thing was how
> well the clarinet was received. It makes me wonder if it's
> just kind of "forgotten" by band leaders or listeners, who will
> like it if it's offered.
>
> Hans (swing band leader in a previous life, now a hobby
> clarinet and sax player)
Steve Epstein
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Author: Low_Reed
Date: 2006-01-10 02:10
I hear you loud and clear, Fred! I am a bass clarinet hobbyist, back at it for a few years following a three-decade lapse after high school and college band. I play solo jazz, ballads, and classic rock -- all from sheet music, which I spend a lot of time transposing from piano/voice arrangements.
I would love to be free of the tyranny of the written tune! It will take a lot of work, I know. My New Year's resolution is to pay more attention, in my lessons and practice, to scales, intervals, patterns, and improvisation. My heart is well-informed emotionally; if only my mind and mouth and fingers were as well-informed about what feels/sounds right!
Fun-damentals and fun: the former enables the latter, for sure. I'm grateful that I could already read music and play the BC when I decided I wanted to play again. But for me, it's the inspiration and the fun of making music that keeps me going. I think that I stopped playing in 1970 because there was a real disconnect between the music I played and the music that I listened to. And even when I came back to BC, my first forays were in community bands. It has taken a leap of faith to realize that, with some creative shedding of stereotypes, and a lot of woodshedding, I can use the instrument I know to play the music I love.
It's possible that I may have come to that realization sooner, and may not have had such a long dry spell, had I learned directed spontaneous combustion - improvisation - in my formative years.
**Music is the river of the world!**
-- inspired by Tom Waits and a world full of music makers
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-01-10 02:51
I don't notice a big decline of music in my area. My school district has supported the arts for as long as I can remember and all of our music teachers would do anything to keep it alive. We have funding for in-class time, but we must pay an extra marching band fee to cover the costs of competition, buses, food, uniforms, shoes, etc.
At my school we have 2 Bands, 5 Choirs, 2 Chamber Choirs, 2 Orchestras, 1 Jazz Band, and 1 Jazz Ensemble. The bands, choirs, and orchestras all meet during school. The chamber choir meets during our lunch shift and then after school once a week, while the jazz bands meet before school twice a week.
The only decline I've seen is that our band has had a couple fewer clarinet players in the last 3 years. It seems that the quality of the players overall is decreasing with time. The seniors are mostly the only kids that practice and really care about band, as well as the huge lump of kids that are making the All-District and All-State groups.
The one thing that bugs me about funding is that the sports get all the money that comes from our school vending machines.
Here's a link to my school's music program webpage. I think you'll see that they really support us:
<www.musicparents.com>
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-01-10 03:12
Low_Reed,
Re "My New Year's resolution is to pay more attention, in my lessons and practice, to scales, intervals, patterns, and improvisation", I have found listening to other musicians to be important too.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-01-10 03:43
Clarinet as a hobby is not popular because clarinet players allow themselves to be put in a box as far as what they believe they can do with the instrument, the same box as if they were pros. For example, from reading this board, one may get the impression that in order to play jazz, one must be competent at least on several different types of saxaphone and flute as well. This is most likely true for a pro, but an amateur can do whatever he/she wants -- if you don't expect to make any real money from playing -- we are talking about clarinet as a hobby, aren't we? This is not to say you can be a bad player, because other musicians won't want to play with you, but it does mean you can be less than a virtuoso and still live with yourself.
The clarinet "box" also includes the view that the clarinet is used only for certain types of music. For example, you may play classical music, jazz, or klezmer/"ethnic" music on a clarinet. What about old time American Appalachian fiddle music, or Irish jigs and reels? This "box" is reinforced by people from other musical traditions such as those looking askance at clarinet players who wish to play their music. At one time, there was no accordion in Irish music, but it's certainly popular now. I just bought a CD of accordion music which includes classical selections. Things changed because accordion players wanted them to.
I play a lot of the aforementioned traditional music on a C-clarinet for contradancing. Again, the "box" would specify that a C-clarinet is used only for certain types of that "ethnic"/klezmer music where the "real pros" use C's, some traditional jazz, and opera where specified. Playing on a C because it makes the keys more convenient without transposing (unlike an A) would be considered invalid because the rules that the pros go by require one to become proficient in C to Bb or A transposition.
I played a contradance the other evening and afterwards, a young woman came up to me and complemented me on my playing. She told me that she "used to play clarinet in high school and never knew you could play this music on clarinet and play it like that". Here was another clarinet player who put it away after high school because she found no use for it. My horn gathered dust for 20 years before I began to play on it again, and when I restarted I resisted the temptation to get lessons from someone who would have likely had me playing method books on my Bb and encouraged me to join a community band. Nothing wrong with that, but I would have found it ultimately unsatisfying, and put it away for another 20 years.
When more clarinet players get out of the box and stop trying to emulate pros, to be minor-league pros in their approach to music, there will be more clarinet hobbyists. I won't need a C-clarinet because clarinet will be so popular, all the fiddle tunes will be played in our keys and the fiddle players will be the ones to suffer.
Excuse me for venting.
Steve Epstein
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-01-10 04:03
Clarinetgirl06 wrote:
> I don't notice a big decline of music in my area...
>
> At my school we have 2 Bands, 5 Choirs, 2 Chamber Choirs, 2
> Orchestras, 1 Jazz Band, and 1 Jazz Ensemble...
>
> The only decline I've seen is that our band has had a couple
> fewer clarinet players in the last 3 years. It seems that the
> quality of the players overall is decreasing with time. The
> seniors are mostly the only kids that practice and really care
> about band, as well as the huge lump of kids that are making
> the All-District and All-State groups...
>
> Here's a link to my school's music program webpage. I think
> you'll see that they really support us:
>
> <www.musicparents.com>
>
But what will happen after high school? What will happen to the merely pretty good players who don't pursue their instruments in college? Even the really great players who don't pursue it, because they're going to become lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc? What will happen when some of them try to pursue it only to discover that all they believe they can do as an adult non-pro is join a community band (see my post above) and many of them find that to be unsatisfying? Is the whole thing of music lessons, school ensembles and All State just for the sake of competition, "discipline", "appreciation", and the college application?
The point is, how do you turn clarinet playing (or trumpet, or French horn ,or cello, etc) into an adult hobby?
Steve Epstein
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-10 07:33
> Excuse me for venting.
Quite the contrary. Exactly my thoughts.
--
Ben
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-01-10 08:22
You need a 'point' to your efforts - and for the clarinet, it's easy to overlook the 'point'.
For me, it's that the instrument isn't a machine, it's a voice. And hopefully I can communicate that point to others, so occasionally someone thinks, 'there's a point to playing clarinet, isn't there? Maybe I should try.'
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-01-10 09:54
In my university, which is one of the two in the country that has a classical performance department, this year we have more clarinetists than, maybe ever. I think we have around ten this year, while the avarage is usually around 4 or 5.
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Author: Barton62
Date: 2006-01-10 12:04
Steve's point regarding what happens after high school was well made. I quit playing after one year in college. It has taken me many years to start playing again and I've had to be creative in my playing and taking up my hobby again. I recently played in an orchestra for our church's cantata. The majority of instrumentalists were professional musicians from our community. I was the clarinet section, and was able to keep up with all of these gifted people. I sounded good too, if I may say so. I've been practicing and will be working with my church's music ministry. We do have a community band, however, I would be one off the youngest people there and I'm 43. I am currently delving into taking music classes at our local university. Finding a way to continue this hobby is difficult, but with a little imagination and creativity it can be done.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-01-10 13:07
This may sound self-serving (because - disclaimer - Forte' is coming out with a "C" clarinet) but my own market research (pretty reliable data from the largest mail order sellers of clarinets) indicates a steady growth in sales - almost exponential - for "C" clarinets in the low to moderate price range. My take on this is that hobby players are finding, or enjoying playing other music genre than the classic written scores for Bb clarinet. The skill of transposing is almost a lost art form for students that I have talked with (a non-scientific sample for sure). All of this may indicate a trend by hobby clarinet players to be able to interact and play with the broad spectrum of music written for piano, etc. than the conventional orchestra, community or group band, or structured music groups like swing bands where music parts are written for each instrument. I find that the better mannered "C" clarinets have the tonal quality of a singer's voice and do not sound brash or shrill to the ears of the Bb clarinet player.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-10 13:39
I never really cared about transposing for the clarinet. Playing for myself or with another clarinetist makes this a non-issue as well as accompanying a singer.
But I'd definitely be interested in an inexpensive C clarinet. Looks like a huge potential, especially for those leaving beaten paths.
--
Ben
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-10 14:18
Bassie said, "For me, it's that the instrument isn't a machine, it's a voice." I think that's a brilliant point. We need to strive toward making that voice a beautiful thing that people want to hear. The Big Band era had Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw and others who played their instruments as an extension of their own unique personalities and made the voice of the clarinet one that the public applauded. We need to encourage the expression of the instrument along the line of individuality and creativity or it will fade into the background and eventually diminish. By this I mean encouraging young players like Julian Bliss to create their own niche with their instrument as their "voice." Who would have thought a soprano sax would get the attention it has gotten through Kenny G? (Please, this isn't an endorsement of Kenny G, but a comment about the public's desire to hear him play.)
Many cultures like the Jewish culture and Greek cultures have the clarinet as a central part of their popular music sound. The voice of the clarinet is essential in Klezmer. Our culture has changed drastically since the Benny Goodman era and jazz and big bands don't hold the place they once held. Perhaps we're waiting on someone to come along and "revive" the art of clarinet playing to the point that people demand to hear it. In the meantime we can encourage our communities to have bands and live orchestras that allow players who have graduated from high school and college a place to play.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-01-11 15:41
I think low demand for classical music in general must be hurting the clarinet, too. Case in point: Washington, D. C. is now down to just one classical music radio station. It's commercial and heavily into "Top Forty" repetitiveness, but it's better than nothing. The local PBS station stopped playing classical music and converted to a yackety-yack format). Well, as of this week, that one remaining classical station moved to a new frequency with far lower wattage than it had before. I can't receive it at home, though I'm hardly in the middle of nowhere--I'm inside the Beltway, 12 miles from the U. S. Capitol. The station is so full of static in most locations around the area that, for practical purposes, it's almost unlistenable on the car radio as well. Kids at the age when most begin music lessons just don't have an opportunity to hear the possibilities, unless their parents are into classical music.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: jezzo
Date: 2006-01-11 21:57
I would agree with all the comments.
I'm in an amateur wind-band where we have 4 clarinetists and I'm the youngest one(20something). I believe young people are more interested in the "popular instruments" as is guitar or drums.. That's why there's so little of us.
"For me, it's that the instrument isn't a machine, it's a voice." ... my girl, totally unexperienced in music (here own words) also thinks that bass clarinet sounds very nice.
My hot clarinet blog
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-01-12 00:53
Lelia, I have been listening to WGMS since the 60s (when they were on AM and FM), and heard about the change while listening on the web at home in Charleston S.C. That's bad news. For all their faults, they surpass what we have here! And, they played the finale to K622 yesterday. On my last trip north, I picked them up in Hanover Courthouse (about 70 miles out). No more!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-12 03:15
No great loss, as far as I'm concerned, since for the last few years WGMS has played the same Mozart and Haydn over and over and over again, hundreds of times, never venturing past Brahms, no longer playing entire symphonies but instead just one movement, no longer announcing the artist/orchestra after playing a piece, and in general just being the worst sort of "Top-40" classical drivel provider one could imagine. Not to mention 30 minutes of commercials per hour. To them I say "good riddance". Hopefully a new and better station will fill the void someday.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-01-12 12:10
Everything David Spiegelthal says about the WGMS format is true, alas. The station has gotten worse and worse. I'll bet it's turned off potential listeners who weren't already classical music fans. It's annoyed me no end to hear, for instance, the same performance of the same "Spring" movement from Vivaldi's "Four Seasons" played *three days in a row*. Aaaaaagh! And don't even get me started on the "Taco Bell Canon."
But still, to have *no* viable classical music station in a major metropolitan area--! It's possible that the station owners want to get rid of WGMS by shoving it into such a weak signal that listeners drift off and don't notice when the station finally dies. Maybe we will get something better to replace WGMS. Yeah, but I'm not going to hold that note until I turn blue....
In the meantime, Tower Records and other local stores have cut back their classical music sections drastically. It's easier to order online anyway; and I go to CD Cellar (a block from Bangkok Blues, David...) for used merch; but a person has to start out *knowing* something--hearing something--to take advantage of those sources. Tower used to have a knowledgable classical music fan behind the counter in the classical dept., but now the classics share the room with "Easy Listening" and "New Age," and when there's a warm body behind the counter at all, it's got the thousand-yard stare.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Lani
Date: 2006-01-12 23:43
I am definitely a hobbyist clarinet. At 28, still having lessons. The quality of my teacher make my lessons the highlight of my playing. They are fun and professional. Also, this is the only way I regularly get to play music with someone else. (My teacher accompanies on piano).
I have many musician friends, most hobbyists also. None play clarinet. I have quite a few girlfriends who play flute and piano, quite a few guy friends playing guitar and piano. Some of them are very good/advanced thought still hobbyists.
None of my friends play strings. Very few play brass and a couple play sax.
I find the challenge for hobbyists is the costs of private lessons. (Where I live they are equal to about 2-4 hours of my pay).
Also, finding a group of friends or a community band that has similar music style interests and time availability is a real issue. Playing with others is such a motivating factor that it could be very discouraging for the hobbyist to have to play alone all the time. For me it is easier to find a few friends to play with socially then join an amateour community band for this reason.
I think family has a big impact on whether people are exposed to instruments and are inclined to take it up.
All my friends that have stuck with it in their adulthood either had musical parents/grandparents or supportive/encouraging parents. They were often exposed to lots of good music from when quite young, either classic or jazz.
Good thread.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-01-14 00:07
I've never listened to WGMS, but am aware of other "classical" stations with that kind of format. They're really not classical stations, you know. They're really easy listening stations that play classical music for easy listening, just like the "smooth jazz" stations.
I was ticked some years ago when the public radio station in Harrisburg PA (WITF) went all classical, ditching jazz and folk, including a great home-grown folk show, but I must admit they play quite a variety of classical music. It's where I heard Branford playing the Ibert sax concerto.
Steve Epstein
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Author: Fred
Date: 2006-01-14 17:22
What defines a "good clarinetist"? What repertoire does one work on? What are the skills that you consider essential for one to have?
Now that you have that firmly established in your thoughts, when is the last time you turned on a non-classical radio station or listened to something enjoyable on commercial television and found those talents showcased? My opinion is that there is nothing wrong with the clarinet; the problem is with our selective education that excludes (for the most part) anything that would appeal to a mass audience. The mass audience does not want to be impressed with our technique; they want to enjoy the music we are making. I fear therefore that we are suffering from self-inflicted societal non-relevance.
Now . . . I know many (most?) of the readers of this board are not fans of Acker Bilk. But as a young child, I remember listening to "Stranger on the Shore" over and over. It was on the radio . . . he was on TV . . . I even bought the 45. There was nothing technical about his performance . . . no speedy runs, difficult articulation, or impressive altissimo. It was simply melodic, but it required a different set of skills than the typical clarinet player is taught.
I've known many good clarinetists in my life; and maybe a few very good ones. But none of them could have stood in front of a group of non-classical listeners and entertained a crowd with their "repetoire" the way Acker Bilk and other musicians could. I hope you realize that I am not for ignoring the classical side of our education. It should form the foundation of our training. I'm just saying that there's another world of music out there that people want to hear. Ignore it at your own peril.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-01-14 18:20
Doom and gloom! Doom and gloom!
Frankly, I think that if the "classical" world spent as much time trying to connect to audiences as they did lamenting the horrible decline of the music, perhaps they wouldn't be so bad off.
Given the number of people that make the "woe is the arts" argument year after year, there will always be some audience out there.
I also think that people would be less steeped in "old" classical music if they didn't keep complaining about the horrible state of classical music. If you believe that the audience doesn't like your music, you play to the few people that DO still come (the people that like the "listeners' choice CD" music), and further marginalize the people that were undecided on the issue and may have enjoyed an edgier program.
I also don't care for the losing "war on rock music" that many classical-types seem to be waging. Heaven forbid that WE play music that is relevant to our audiences. Why, after all, is it such an incredibly big deal when someone in our circles plays something less than 30 years old?
We should be happy as a niche, and we're quite a large niche at that.
I think the classical world just has a LOT of trouble coming to terms that they aren't the popular ones. After hundreds of years of exaltedness, I guess it takes hundreds more to accept the loss of "supreme music" status.
If we would get out of denial and accept our musical place in the world for what it is, I think it would be very freeing, and would lead to a much more vibrant "classical" world. After all, would you rather go to a welcoming concert put on by people who play a particular style of music because they like to and who appreciate your patronage, or to an oppressive "you're supposed to be here because we are culture" marathon event put on almost out of habit by people who feel entitled to have a large, quiet, attentive, high-brow audience and snubs their noses at people who do not "understand" them?
Are there any other genres of music where a newly-formed ensemble EXPECTS to have an audience without any prior exposure? If I were to form a Beatles cover band (because that's essentially what a newly formed, say, string quartet is) I wouldn't expect a soul to come and hear us in concert. MAYBE we could start out with a coffee house gig. And it would probably be mostly older people who came to listen to us (getting older every year! Oh noes!). And not very many of them. Unless we got really good, we would likely disband, and we'd say "Well, we had a good time." As opposed to the string quartet who would be more inclined to say "Screw you all, haters of classical music!"
If we were to consider ourselves culturally valuable and insightful rather than "we are culture, hear us roar! A pox on you all, players of inferior musics!" I think people would come to us more and, in turn, perhaps school funding for our type of stuff would in turn be reexamined as valuable and people would find us agreeable people to hobbyisticize with.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: neil.clarinet
Date: 2006-01-14 23:03
From my experience clarinet and music in general is done as a hobby a great deal, probably more than professionals or conservatoire students combined. I have played in a few bands and orchestra that are predominatly hooybists, usually with a minority of music students and other professional (doctors/teachers etc.) who for sure have a busy life. I certainly don't recognise any 'noncommittal arbitrariness', though I realise this can vary from culture to culture (I'm from Scotland).
And even students of an instrument often do others as a 'hobby'. On another forum I regularly visit there is plenty evidence of this, both from the members themselves and the stories they contribute.
Post Edited (2006-01-14 23:04)
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Author: Chalumeau Joe
Date: 2006-01-14 23:43
Guitars are cool. Clarinets are not. It's as simple as that.
So, "yes", I think clarinet is a declining hobby and will continue to be until the perceptions and stereotypes about it change.
One trend (albeit minor) that may help is the renewed interest in swing-era music. I live in the Baltimore-Washington area and am surprised at how many young folks (in their 20s and 30s) are taking dance lessons. Perhaps the appreciation for the music will start to rub off on young kids and clarinets will become "cool" in ten years or so.
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