 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: undercoat
Date: 2006-01-09 11:53
Hello everyone,
I have just started to play the clarinet - only since Christmas - I am a total beginner. However, I can play the saxophone, recorder and piano, so I know a bit.
I was surprised at how hard my clarinet was to blow (it is a Hanson with a Vandoren mouthpiece), but have got used to it now. My problem is the high notes - I can do middle B flat, but above that I can only squeak!! What am I doing wrong? Is it the reed? Is it my embouchure? Do I need to just keep playing the lower notes until I develop my mouth muscles enough to play the high notes? Any help would be gratefully received.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-09 12:27
If you were a "real" beginner, I'd say, don't worry. But if you can play the sax, I'm surprised you are having such a problem. Can you find a clarinet player to check the instrument for you; sounds to me that there might be a leak somewhere.
Which Vandoren mouthpiece, what reeds (brand and strength) are you using? What mouthpiece and reeds do you use on sax?
Edit:
It occurs to me that another possible cause is if you are not covering the holes adequately. I played the recorder for many years before I took up the clarinet, and this has been a continuing problem for me. Clarinet holes are a lot larger than recorder holes, and the slightest leak will stop the instrument sounding correctly. Try really pressing your fingers hard against the holes: I'm not saying you should normally play like that, but just as a diagnostic test.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
Post Edited (2006-01-09 12:39)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 13:22
Being a beginner myself (since September) I had similar problems until my embouchure got the hang of it.
When you blow Chalumeau C and press the register key, will it squeak? Or will it squeak only if you /start/ with a Clarion note?
--
Ben
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Author: undercoat
Date: 2006-01-09 14:34
I have a Vandoren 5 rv mouthpiece. I have been using Vandoren reeds 1.5 strength, but I have ordered a selection of about 5 reeds from Myatts to try out. I think Mitchell Lurie are supposed to be okay? I am not brilliant at the saxophone, just okay. The instrument I like the most is the recorder, but I wanted to play a smallish instrument with a greater range. I find the sax a bit cumbersome and it makes my hands smell!!
I really want to persevere with this clarinet and it has been suggested that I play in front of the mirror to make sure that I am covering the holes because, as you say, they are much bigger than the recorder.
Are the higher notes naturally harder to play than the lower notes? I can make a really nice sound in the lower registers, but it is the notes above a b flat. Am I trying to run before I can walk. I am very impatient, because I feel I should be finding this easier than it is!
Thanks for your replies.
Post Edited (2006-01-09 14:34)
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-09 14:47
Mitchell Lurie reeds are a good choice for a beginner; less temperamental than Vandoren. You probably need about a #3 - they are much softer than a Vandoren of the same number.
You ask whether the "higher notes naturally harder to play than the lower notes" - well, yes, they are, but only a little bit harder. If you can play the sax even at a rather basic level, you shouldn't struggle too badly with the clarion register of the clarinet.
Play a low C. Concentrate on making the best possible sound, mezzoforte. This shouldn't be very much effort: more effort than a recorder, but still not very hard work. Keep blowing steadily, and open the register key. Don't change anything else. You should get an acceptable clarion G. It may not be beautiful, but it shouldn't be a squeak.
If the clarion G is OK, then work downwards to B. The notes above G are significantly more difficult to play reliably; don't struggle with them until you are happy from B to G.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-01-09 14:54
One more thing. Sorry if this is really really really obvious to you. When you open the register key to play the clarion register, you must keep the thumb hole closed. Not open as for middle Bb, and not slightly-open as on a recorder, but completely closed.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-01-09 15:09
I second the suggestion that you check to be sure that you are covering the tone holes. Look at your fingertips to see if you have complete, uniformally deep impression on on each (but the pinkies) fingertip.
I had a marvelous alto sax student who failed to become a doubler on clarinet because she could not reliably cover the finger holes. She was so good on sax that the distraction of covering the holes just frustrated the devil out of her on the clarinet.
A current colleague has suffered a stroke --and can no longer be sure he's covering the holes on his clarinet. His tenor playing is just outstanding, but he can't suffer the hole coverage problems on his screech stik. He's given it up and won't look for a plateau clarinet.
By the way, it doesn't take much of a miss on a tone hole to ruin a note on the clarinet. Think of the effort it takes to regulate the mechanical pads on a sax!
Bob Phillips
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2006-01-09 15:17
As a beginner on the clarinet with less than a year experience, when I speed up or blow too hard, I squeak. It took me a month to get up to the altissimo F. I think it is a matter of long tones and appeggio practice. If it was easy, anyone could do it.
I hope it isn't your instrument. I got the best one I could afford and then had it checked out by a clarinet player. She, my wife, can make it sing. So it's all me, trying to get those fingerings second nature and that embouchure where it needs to be. Fortunately it is a labor of love. I'm not in a hurry. And when I get frustrated, I go play the sax. :o)
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2006-01-09 20:54
Being a sax player first, it may also be that you're holding the clarinet at the wrong angle. If you have a sax angle, it may be coming out of your mouth a bit too close to horizontal, meaning that you're constricting the reed between your top teeth and lower lip. On a soft reed especially, this can manifest itself as high resistance at the mouthpiece, with intermittent squeaks when air actually does get in.
With your head "horizontal", the clarinet should point at an angle south of 45 degrees, and perhaps as little as 15 degrees from vertical.
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Baldrick, you wouldn't recognise a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on a harpsichord singing "Subtle plans are here again". - Edmund Blackadder
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-01-09 21:14
undercoat,
The following lists are not exhaustive or in any particular order, but may give you things to check.
You may also want to find a teacher to help you get started. It would be money well spent.
Regards,
Hans
Causes of Squeaks
- a dry reed
- accidentally touching a key
- the middle joint in a clarinet is not properly aligned
- using a "wrong" fingering instead of a better alternate
- a finger not covering a hole
- a pad not seating properly
- a weak spring not holding a key closed
- keys out of adjustment (e.g., the "A" key)
- unco-ordinated fingering
- a leaking joint
- a cracked instrument (in a wood clarinet)
- too much mouthpiece in the mouth
- a burr on the mouthpiece top rail
- misapplied lip pressure
- a reed is split
- the reed is not perfectly sealed on the mouthpiece
- a reed is too thin at the center of the tip or is stiffer on one side than the other
- a poorly designed, worn, or warped mouthpiece (a warped mouthpiece can be refaced)
- the mouthpiece baffle (the slanted top inside the tip) is too high
Causes of Poor Tone Quality
- lack of breath support
- lack of lip support
- tonguing the wrong place on the reed
- tonguing too hard
- moving the lower jaw while tonguing
- too much mouthpiece in the mouth so that the reed can not be controlled
- the chin being puckered up instead of pointed
- the clarinet held too far out from the body or too near
- too little mouthpiece in the mouth
- the reed is too stiff - results in a "stuffy" tone
- the reed is too soft - it will choke before enough air support can be applied
- a poor combination of mouthpiece and reed
- an instrument which is poorly designed or in poor condition; e.g., skin of a pad is loose and vibrates, weak springs.
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Author: D
Date: 2006-01-09 21:58
if you have a convenient extra person in your house (or a neighbour) then get them to stand with you while you play C, then they press the register key while you keep blowing. This is to be absolutely certain that you are not moving your fingers. It took me a good few weeks to reliably get up there and I have the exact same clarinet as you. (also being a recorder/sax/flute player).
the other thing is, are you tightening your mouth and totally cutting off the air when you are trying the higher notes? you probably aren't as you play sax and are therefore highly skilled already!, but these thing are always worth eliminating.
Also, it is easier to get to the higher notes by just doing the register key thing. Don't worry about trying to get there from your throat notes to start with, because it introduces too many fingers which you might be putting down in the wrong place and also because the pressure difference from throat to tube tends to throw things off anyway. Limit yourself to one potential error at once.......
heheh have fun!
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-01-09 22:18
My advice would be that, if you are really serious about learning how to play the clarinet, find a local teacher and take some lessons. A teacher can examine your equipment/setup and determine if there are any problems there. A teacher at this stage can also help you avoid developing bad habits (as you try to compensate for your problems) that are hard to break later.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-09 22:19
> heheh have fun!
Today I caught myself standing on my toes while going the register up...as if this made it any easier!
--
Ben
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-01-09 23:33
>I have a Vandoren 5 rv mouthpiece. I have been using Vandoren reeds 1.5 strength
too soft. try #2.5 or #3 reeds.
i start beginners on #3's and Vandy 5RV-Lyre mouthpieces. seems to work well for most of them.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: undercoat
Date: 2006-01-10 11:38
Wow, thanks for all the messages of support! I went home last night and played again and - weh heh - I managed a D, E and F which was absolutely brilliant and encouraged me play for about an hour!
I have printed all your messages and will work through them with my clarinet. Thanks again.
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