 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-04 18:18
That's a pretty easy mechanism to make and fit, but the speaker key and Bb vent aren't completely seperate - both vents will be open if the thumb ring is 'open'.
There's a picture of this mechanism fitted to a Noblet in Jack Brymer's book.
The mechanism I have in mind has a full sized tonehole for Bb (in the same distance from the top and same size as the side Bb tonehole, but positioned on the other side of the top joint) and only opens when the speaker key and throat A key are pressed together, but the speaker vent will open as soon as the A key is released.
But not connected to the throat G# as this is sometimes used for altissimo E and F under certain conditions - ie. if they're flat!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-01-04 18:23
I have a "Stubbins-Noblet" and there is another one "rite here in River City" OK. They apparently had a short period of marketing by Leblanc and [I believe] Selmer, and perhaps a "kit" was available for a tech's installing. Yes, it gives [me] a VG Bb and clarion intonation/response, but other Leblancs/Selmers of the '50-'70 vintage were better overall cls, having at least fair Bb's with vent-tube developments. Other inventions by Mazzeo, McIntyre etc prob. also played a part in the lack of success, beyond OUR "resistance to change" !! Wm S's invention [US 2,508,550] was, IMHO, adapted more successfully to bass [and larger] and some DRK alto cls, so not all of his pioneering was in [marketing] vain. Thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-01-04 18:30
i reccently played Wurlitzer Reform Boehm clarinets with an "SK" type mechanism (ie improved Bflat, but not two separate holes for reg/bflat with an exchange mechanism) and found this to work quite nicely. One advantage, i believe, is that if the mechanism goes out of adjustment the clarinet will still play.
i understand (from others advice admittedly) that with the "exchange" type mechanisms one disadvantage was that when it failed, there was a good chance that this would render the clarinet unplayable (on the other hand, millions of people play the saxophone without this being a problem, and the sax has an "exchange" type mechanism....)
by the way
in the Jack Brymer book there is a very good photo of the SK mechanism, but it is incorrectly described in the text.
keep playing the good tunes
donald
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-01-04 18:37
To the best of my knowledge, the S-K mechanism was released on three variations of clarinets. Stubbins apparently did a private run of clarinets that are labelled, appropriately, "Stubbins" as their manufacturer. The Stubbins run can best be characterized as intermediate or student instruments. I believe that Leblanc actually did the manufacturing for him. Leblanc later manufactured under its own names a Leblanc professional version of the clarinet and a Noblet version. Again, to the best of my knowledge there were single Leblanc and Noblet versions of the instrument and their original release date was in the 1960s.
Four major venting systems for dealing with "problems" in throat tones were released in the 1950s and 1960s -- Mazzeo (Bundy, Signet, and several alternate Selmer Paris variations based on different Selmer models and two different key fabrications), Stubbins (Stubbins private label, Noblet, Leblanc), McIntyre (all private label and of generally poor manufacture quality), and Selmer (original) Omega based on their Centered Tone clarinet. The Mazzeo and McIntyre systems require alternate fingerings; the McIntyre ones are substantial. The S-K and Omega venting mechanisms are "transparent" (in that they do not require alternate fingerings) but work in quite different ways with the Omega mechanism the more mechanically complex.
George
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-01-04 18:45
Don,
You are the only one I have ever seen who recalled that the S-K mechanism was on some Selmers. I recently purchased an L series, Full Boehm A clarinet (late 1930s or early 1940s) that has an S-K key on it. Donald Hinson did the restoration. The Selmer S-K does not look like the ones on the Leblanc and Stubbins private label clarinets I own, but functionally it is the same and works wonderfully. Neither Donald nor I are sure if the S-K mechanism was installed at the time of the clarinet manufacture or after the fact; the S-K mechanism keys match the other keywork, but a very skilled craftsperson could have shaped the keys to match. We were surprised to find such an old Selmer with the S-K keys and wonder whether Selmer was experimenting with the S-K mechanism before it tried the Omega system and the Mazzeo modification. Alternately, the S-K mechanism might have been retrofit onto this clarinet as an experiment or as a prototype.
George
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-01-04 19:17
Doggone it. George, you made me dig out my R I FB, L1806 !! [1932]. It just has the standard register key/tone hole and its "problems". Since ?prob? Stubbins research/development was only a few years before his Pat Appl date 8/5/48, it couldn't have been orig. to your L model, I'd guess it was added about 1960 +/- 5. Does yours have the metal-lined barrel which extends into the over-bored U J ?? Am not sure I like mine ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-04 20:23
I did see an old Leblanc (with unplated keys) on the French eBay site a while back (and I coulda woulda shoulda... but didn't) which had the exact same type of mechanism as on Leblanc alto and basset horns (not Noblet or Vito types which connect with the thumb ring) to seperate the speaker vent with the Bb vent - it had the link from the A key to determine which vent opened.
If I was to make such a device, I'd put plenty of adjustment screws so that battlefield adjustments can be done if the worst should happen. But I have a better idea in mind, similar to a sax octave mechanism, but it's a bit on the bulky side and does need some slots milled into the body - but it works wonders on a fully automatic octave mechanism for oboes I made a while back.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-04 22:34
...which is like the mechanism on Bundy alto and bass clarinets.
It's good 'ere, innit?
I like the part labelled 'C' - sole purpose to unstick the speaker pad! Shows they thought it through though.
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-01-05 04:15
The Omega I have does not stick, but the spring strength seems to give it a weird kind of "give and take" where the mechanism works extremely well when the clarinet is held at a certain angle, but at other angles (more straight out as opposed to down) the mechanism can be sluggish. The post by Ken Shaw that Mark has provided the link for suggests the same thing, mentioning the spring tension issue.
On the horns I own, the Mazzeo mechanism works "best" for giving an easy to use Bb of the highest quality, followed by the Stubbins. The Omega vent seems to me to be a failed design that while historically interesting (and in my case on a really excellent CT clarinet) was appropriately superceded by the Mazzeo and Stubbins designs.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-05 06:44
Just to add - if I was to make an improved Bb I'd put the Bb vent above the centre line of the bore to keep condensation out, and no need for a tube.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2007-03-04 13:49
To donald
I'm studying S-K mechanism and searched a lot here.
But it is difficult to understand how the mechanism works.
My question is how the S-K works in the Brymer book.
Can you elaborate about this?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-03-04 14:25
Steve Fox will put either mechanism on his instruments. Luis Rossi offers an SK-type mechanism.
Refitting either mechanism to an existing clarinet is theoretically possible but difficult. You would need to reposition the register vent (higher) and, for the SK mechanism, re-make the top two trill keys to accommodate the link with the throat A or Ab key.
A simpler solution is the Galper register vent http://members.aol.com/cwindz/galper.html, which can be installed in a few minutes. I don't have one, but I've tried instruments with it, and the improvement is significant.
Ken Shaw
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-03-04 20:39
Ken, is that Galper Register Vent available for clarinets other than R-13's?
Those darn stuffy Bb's and speed bumps at the break plague owners of all makes and models of clarinets.
Eu
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-04 21:18
EuGeneSee wrote:
> Ken, is that Galper Register Vent available for clarinets other
> than R-13's?
Nope. Abe Galper & I tried playing around w/ my Selmer 10G but the design was too much different. The tube requires a replacement register key.
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Author: Clarinet4McKayla
Date: 2014-06-09 21:30
Attachment: clarinet2.JPG (748k)
I have a VITO, W.H. Stubbins Clarinet with his engraving on it. It is equiped with the mechanism patented by Mr Stubbins. Can anyone tell me the value of it? I have attached a photo, and thanks for any information.
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