 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DaveF
Date: 2006-01-04 17:08
Perhaps Signature players might have some advice for me.......
I purchased a pair of Selmer Signatures last October, after trying many instruments at WWBW. I am very pleased with overall sound quality and keywork, and intonation with excellent 12's. I'm using a Brad Behn Chedeville style mpc, and need to use the shorter barrels to play in tune. I've been giving it some time for settling in, but consistently note the following issues, and wonder if others have suggestions.
1) Throat Bb is stuffy, and voicing with other fingers makes very little difference. The throat A and G# can be voiced very nicely.
2) Low F is muffled and flat.
3) Altissimo notes are flat, starting at E (third ledger line), requiring adding the sliver key to bring up.
4) RHD pinky G#/D# leads to a brassy tone, although I plan on carefully bending so the pad cup doesn't open so high, expecting that will help.
Any thoughts here? Would seeking a new barrel be worthwhile, and if so who makes good barrels for Signatures? Any of the best repair persons known to be experienced with Signatures?
David Frank
ER doc, free lance clarinetist, Seattle area
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-04 17:57
With all these issues, I'm surprised you bought these clarinets in the first place! I would demand better results from instruments costing a mere fraction of what you probably paid for the Signatures. Did all the instruments you tried at WWBW have similar/comparable "issues"?
Go vintage............
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-01-04 18:32
Are these issues the same on both the A and Bb horns?
Has something changed with the height of the register key or the A/Ab mechanism? Nothing foreign in the reg. tube?
Is the thumb tube protrusion in proper alignment? (I am told that this is one of the first things checked on pro set-ups)
The G# problem might be as you indicated.
I know a tech who uses resonator pads on the lower joint big pads to help the low notes on Selmers.
Lastly, is there a gap between the mouthpiece and the barrel socket?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2006-01-04 21:48
Typically the long B is airy sounding.
It's the register tube - Backun changed it (made one) for Ricardo's Signature Clarinet and it works really well. (I tried his Signature and compared it to mine)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-01-04 21:56
Some techs swap out the R13 register tube and put in a Festival tube when working on a new R13. You would think Selmer would have evaluated the register tube before the launch.
Apparently the malposition of the concave thumb hole protrusion is another common malady.
What beats me, is why doesn't the manufacturer collect these pearls and do it themselves before selling the horn?
(Rhetorical question which ranks up there with why can't you get scrapple for breakfast anywhere but around Philly....Blummy, I had mine at the Tiffany diner on Roosevelt Blvd this weekend)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ed
Date: 2006-01-04 22:07
Did all of these problems exist before you started playing on the current mouthpiece? Have someone else try the instruments and see if they have the same problems. I believe that Muncy has some barrels for these instruments. Contact Selmer and see if they have any suggestions.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-04 22:31
I wasn't trying to be facetious or rude -- my point was, why don't they fix these "issues" at the factory, on such expensive clarinets? Why should anyone have to pay thousands of dollars/euros for a new instrument, then spend additional multi-hundreds for Brannenizing or Backun bells or whatever to make it right? Perhaps the clarinet-buying public needs to set higher standards for the manufacturers........don't feel that you'll drive them out of the market and deprive yourselves of instruments if you do -- the world is chock-full of good, older used clarinets that can be made to play just as well for far less money.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2006-01-05 00:00
Hey, maybe we could call for a "clarinet recall...."
Although it would beg the question if anybody had a crystal clear B who tested it during the design process.
Then again, my Buffet Prestige A had a register tube which was too short and caused a "grunt" when I got it.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2006-01-06 04:36
One of the reasons many of these so-called issues aren't "solved" at the factory is because they are equipment (e.g. mpiece, lig, reed, etc.) or player-dependent and have nothing to do with instrument design or QC. What you can say for Brannen, Backun, et al is that they have the skills to optimize the horn for the player.
Dave -- I would suggest two things given your geography. First, go take a lesson with Sean Osborn. Not only will it be a great musical experience, he can help you diagnose your issues, be they instrument, accessory or player related. Second, consider taking the drive up to Vancouver to see Backun after that if it is an instrument issue. As I'm sure you would tell any patient, you could ask the medical opinion of a thousand quacks on the street (or online) or go see a trained physician and get the right answer in a short amount of time for a (hopefully) reasonable cash and time outlay.
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Author: DaveF
Date: 2006-01-06 06:02
Thanks to everyone for all your great suggestions. The Signatures I have are really great, fabulous tone, but like all of us, I just want them to be perfect, and I knew you all would have wise thoughts about my "issues" with them. I do take occassional lessons with Sean Osborn, and he likes my Signatures, although he finds they play with greater resistance than his, although he was using his Johnston mpc. Thus far I've been playing them for about three months, and I'm still learning about better reed selection and air support that can bring out the best.
I'll eventually make my way up I-5 to Backun in Vancouver, and have him check things out.
David Frank
ER doc, freelance clarinetist, Seattle area
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-01-06 06:37
First I'll say I agree with msloss that most issues have more to do with the player or other equipment and not with the instrument. I heard at least three people play Signatures with stock Vandoren or Selmer mouthpieces and they sounded great with none of the problems you mentioned (or maybe they overcame the problems enough so you couldn't hear them).
Another thing I can add, after trying tons of instruments at WW&BW for hours, is that a lot of the instruments in that store are in less than optimal condition. A lot of the intruments I've tried there were basically unplayable at the condition they were in.
If I was you I'd go see a repairman who you can trust 100% and have them check the instruments.
Good luck.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-01-06 15:28
"Are there repairfolk who specialize in Signature?"
Jimmy Yan, in Manhattan, though not a Signature "specialist," has become familiar with enough with them after some initial skepticism a few years back. I would (and have) trusted him with my Signature.
Tomoji, at the Yamaha artist studio on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, worked on many Signatures when he was the repairman at the defunct WWBW store in New York. I'd say he comes close to being a specialist. My understanding is that he'll work on non-Yamaha instruments.
Guy Chaddash, on the other hand, expressed great disdain for the Signature, so I would hesitate to bring one to him (he sort of likes the Recital, though).
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2006-01-06 16:16
When I bought a set of Selmer 10G's from Tony G back in 1988, I had taken them to Mark Jacobi for him to have a look and adjust whatever they needed to be set up properly.
I didn't like the low A at ALL as it was quite a bit more resistant than the B and G was, so was hoping that Mark could have done something about it.
He looked at em and said "nope, there's nothing I can do for these" - cost was about $15.
I ended up returning the 10G's which I had gotten new for only $1500 for the SET and ended up getting a set of Buffet Prestiges which were really good.
Those ended up costing $1000 to get set up. I don't regret the decision, but it sure cost a lot more than it started out being!!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2006-01-08 06:54
Hi!
May I respectfully suggest the following:
1)Consider replacing the register vent tube. Be sure to play with high air pressure, even for soft notes.
2)Check the key heights. If they are ok, consider undercutting the next vent hole down on the tube which will raise the F pitch and make it less fuzzy without affecting the clarion register notes.
3) Perhaps a Moennig-type Selmer barrel will help raise the high notes a little, while stabilizing the upper end of the clarion register as well, in addition to lowering the chalumeau right hand Bb, A, etc if they are too sharp(often found). The embouchure may need to be firmed up a little for the altissimo F and F#, however.
4) How about a thicker cork rather than bending this rather stiff key?
Like all manufacturers, the Selmer Company can only afford to spend a little labor on tuning and optimizing clarinets if they want to stay in business. Thus, don't be too surprized if any new clarinet you buy needs to be worked on. Some very expensive instruments may be exceptions to this.
Good luck and have fun!
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2006-01-08 14:50
yes, these manufacturers spend little labor in these things. Here in Germany most professionals use hand made clarinets. They cost at least the double of a Buffet Festival or a Selmer Signature. THese clarinets are verywell tuned, every spring is ok, the undercut, opening of the keys etc. pp has another quality. THe manufacturers of these clarinets offer as well (German) Boehm clarinets which cost nearly the same as German clarinets. If you compare these prizes with stock Selmers or Buffets and consider that these small companies do not have that administration and management overhead, it is obvious, that for the money you pay for Buffetr, Selmer, Yamaha or Leblanc you have to accept, that they spend less labor in tuning and optimizing the instruments....and teak it afterwards or buy directly a handmade instrument...
I tried several Signatures here in Germany. They seem to be easier to play for me than Buffets because they have a little bit more resistance. I observed, that all 3 Signatures i tried were a little bit flat on low f and e, similar as german clarinets without correction keys. I assumed that this was based in the acoustical design/bore design which seemed to be a little mor into "german" direction...
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