 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jez
Date: 2005-12-28 02:23
Anyone tried these clarinets?
I've been aware of the bells and mouthpieces for ages but didn't even know they made instruments till Julian Bliss told me he was about to go and pick some up. He was also very keen on their mouthpieces.
I see they offer solid 14 carat gold keys. Surely this would be softer and more likely to bend than nickel silver
jez
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-28 04:02
Morrie wouldn't make anything which would easily bend. No idea on the process, but I know his craftsmanship level.
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2005-12-28 12:43
It is probably 14 carat plated. At the current cost of Gold, you'd be looking at a real expensive clarinet if the keys were solid but even at that, 14-18 carat Gold is harder than you may think.
Best
Rick
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2005-12-28 13:55
He is explicitly clear on his website that nothing on his instruments is plated...everything, whether silver or gold, is solid.
Does anybody find this a bit frivolous? (I kind of do, but I have a weird inner struggle with it, since I own two gold flutes, which also seems sort of needless, since I don't believe that the material changes the sound at all...it just seems somehow, I don't know, inappropriate on a clarinet?)
Bet they're gorgeous, though.
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2005-12-28 14:14
Solid Gold.
Wow.
Dressedtokill,
with that screen name I think you would INSIST on solid gold, or
shouldn't someone tell Canadian Backun that all the rappers want Platinum.
Bling Bling
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2005-12-28 14:53
Very funny :-D (I'm not a blingy hip-hop type...more of a velvet-coated, pin-striped Prada type.)
Can you IMAGINE a clarinet with platinum keys? You'd need your assistant principal to help you hold the thing up!
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-12-28 15:34
solid gold keys will ensure a dark, focused sound, as well as easier articulation, and very even intonation
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-12-28 16:04
and just how exactly does the material of the keys affect intonation and articulation ?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-28 16:11
Just when I thought I'd heard enough old wives' tales to last me a lifetime...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-28 16:17
I can see the reason for unplated keys, whether it be nickel silver, solid silver, solid gold, stainless steel, brass, aluminium, magnesium, lead or what ever you fancy as long as it isn't radioactive as there's no plating to wear through, but as far as the keywork improving the general tone quality, articulation, response, intonation, etc. it's all a complete load of ________.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-12-28 17:10)
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2005-12-28 16:48
Amen, brother. You should send a copy of that post to the marketing dept. at Yamaha, because they apparently didn't get that memo when they told the world that for a darker, more focused sound, get Hamilton plated keys!
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-28 16:49
I have no idea how it sounds, but a Rosewood clarinet with gold(-colored) keys has real aesthetic appeal to me!
BTW: in response to the discussion last summer on the effects of plating on the sound of clarinets, I built a math model of the long F#/C# key. Its a spatula, pivot, long rod, pivot #2, arm, cup/pad. I found out that the resonant frequency of the key --held against its stop by a finger will change a few Hertz with different plating materials.
While the plating is very thin, it has a disproportionate effect on the key stiffness because it is as far from the center of the structure as it can be.
The result of plating different materials on nickle silver is that gold, silver, nickle and nickle silver platings (and buffing off an equivalent thickness of the base nickle material) can change the resonant frequency of the key by a few tenths of a percent. Say --shift the key from 440 to 442.
So, there is an effect; but it of the same order of magnitude as the difference between two keys that could be caused by a shift in the forging dies, a few extra seconds on the polishing wheel, ....
Bob Phillips
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-28 17:02
It's all a question of personal taste - someone might be allergic to silver so they get their keywork gold or rhodium plated, or the simple fact that silver feels better under the fingers than slippery nickel plate.
The other question is - who's going to notice what metal (solid or alloy) the keys are made from or plated with just by listening?
Oh look, it's [insert name] and they're playing on a clarinet with solid silver keys judging by the depth of tone and accurate intonation.
(On closer inspection) Oh - hang on a mo, they're playing a bog-standard [insert model name]!
But as far as Backun clarinets go, from what I see they look like fantastic instruments (only by making out what I can see on the one-piece body in the CNC machine) - my opinions about what keys are made from and what effect they're alleged to have on tone etc. still remain, but certainly the material the body is made from, the undercutting, bore shape or taper, etc. will have the factors that determine the resulting tone, response and intonation - and then there's the player themselves.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-12-28 17:32)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-12-28 17:14
I want a sparkly tone, so I'll get mine with some diamond inlays
Bob, the clarinet body resonances are down 60db from the air column resonances, so the key resonances would be down somewhat lower than that.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-28 19:54
How many flutes has he had stolen to this date?
I had a Cooper modified headjoint with an old Selmer (Paris) flute, he put his own lip plate and riser on it and re-tapered the existing tubing, but the tube was only 900/1000 silver, and wouldn't fit my Yamaha (674) that I replaced it with. Still, the Yamaha is a much better instrument than the old Selmer, even though they do go sharp up top (but easily sorted out by moving the stopper cork back by 2mm).
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2005-12-28 22:26
If your Hamilton Plating has a Burr on the metal, can you use the clarinet to fight in a duell?
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Author: CPW
Date: 2005-12-29 01:18
I think the word you want for larryb's comments is "facetious."
I like my smoked meats crispy and in strips, not circular and chewy.
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
Post Edited (2005-12-29 01:26)
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-12-29 03:28
(you know, i WAS going to write "Facetious" but at the time couldn't be bothered reaching for the dictionary, but you're right- it's the perfect word in this instance)
donald
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2005-12-29 12:34
<<<I like my smoked meats crispy and in strips, not circular and chewy.>>>
hah hah Canadian Bacon (Backun) . Yes.
My family went to a fancy restaurant just before Christmas.
I got excited. I thought someone left a Backun barrel on the table.
Then the waiter picked it up and twisted the top and pepper came out of the bottom. [sad]
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-29 15:05
I was under the impression, after speaking on the phone to Joel Jaffe, that the proper pronounciation of Backun was "Bah Koon." He mentioned some players who were "Bah Koon" artists. I had pronounced it Back-un so much to myself that I didn't know what he was talking about at first.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-12-29 15:21
I've spoken with him. He pronounces it "bah KUHN."
Ken Shaw
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-12-29 16:03
A few rhymes in limerick form:
With price tags that will make you swoon,
New barrels and bells by Backun.
They claim to fix tuning,
With no cutting or pruning.
The cost? Like 3 weeks in Cancun
I'm not rich like an oil tycoon,
And I hate to be so picayune.
But when friends spend their loot,
It's so hard to refute,
The claims made by Morrie Backun
I met a young man, just last June.
He told me about his bassoon.
He was very vocal,
'Bout his gold plated bocal.
Claimed EVERYTHING now played in tune.
You don't have to be Daniel Boone,
To scout out some rhymes for Backun.
I take pencil or pen,
Snack on rock cornish hen,
And write by the light of the moon ...GBK
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-29 20:35
It does look like the one in the CNC machine on his site is set out for an articulated G#, either that or it's his own arrangement of the G# key with the right sized and correctly positioned tonehole.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-12-30 03:44
sooooooo
so far nobody we know has actually seen/played one of these? except for maybe Julian Bliss, who (given that he is aware of this noticeboard) will hopefully tell us all about it once he's had a go.....
right? or can anyone actually tell us something "concrete" about them?
donald
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