 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ben
Date: 2005-12-26 23:19
Both Finale and Sibelius recently released new versions of their software. I am interested in getting one of them (I use a Macintosh) and have downloaded the demos to compare a little, but I'm still a bit confused which might be the better program. Has anyone compared these two versions specifically?
In particular, I am wondering which version might be easier to use overall and which might have the better scaning capabilities. It seems like the basic scanning abilities that come with Finale might be better, but there is an additional program (for more detail) available for Sibelius that sounds nice, too.
Thanks for the help!
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-12-27 01:30
I compared both, and found that Sibelius was far more complicated than the Finale product. Both are more complicated than I would like (I'm a Macintosh person as well), but Sibelius was sublimely so, while Finale was only moderately so.
The finished product from both is so far ahead of any manuscript work that I can turn out that there's no question as to whether to use one or not.
And, Finale (and, I assume, Sibelius) are both available at educator's discount. (This is a very good thing, as both are very expensive...)
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-12-27 04:30
For the amount of proofing it requires, and given how quickly I can enter notes on Finale, I don't imagine scanning would be all that useful. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Finale is extremely easy to use... once you know how to use it. The most intuitive way to use each feature is usually the most cumbersome and time-consuming one. However, once you've found all the shortcuts and explored the features (a Finale-wise friend is a great help for this) it's very quick. I find myself constantly saying "You can do THAT with two keystrokes?" regarding some aspect of notation I'd previously agonized over for hours on end. If you can find a Finale course, take it. Best investment of time I've ever made.
If you explore all the tools, metatools, and menus, and learn what each does rather than "oh, there's something called that," Finale is great. That takes considerable time, though.
I'm still waiting to hear of people's experiences with Sibelius' new part-edit-appears-in-score feature.
The general decree I've heard is that Sibelius is easier to learn and Finale gives you more control over exactly how it looks. Finale has its quirks and flakiness, and I imagine Sibelius has some of its own.
To save your sanity, whichever program you choose, approach it from the standpoint of how to minimize mouse clicks.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-27 06:02
I've tried the previous version of Finale but both Sibelius 3 and 4. From the little I've seen of Sibelius 4, it has some things that are actually not as comfortable as Sibelius 3, but maybe I just need more time with it.
I personally think Sibelius is much easier than Finale and I know a few people that actually changed to Sibelius even after years of using Finale after trying it just for a few days. I don't know anyone who changed from Sibelius to Finale, and we have both in my university so I know many people who use them.
Sibelius is extremely easy to learn because it is very intuitive. I sat with a friend that use Sibelius for a few minutes and could pretty much do most things after that.
There are some things that are not possible to do with Sibelius as far as I know, like in a partiture have two different instruments have two differnet time signatures. It's impossible in version 3, but maybe it's possible in version 4, but I don't think.
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2005-12-27 14:43
I would highly recommend Sibelius 4. I have used Finale products for quite some time, but recently changed to Sibelius. As one of my co-workers put it, "Sibelius is designed for musicians by musicians and Finale is designed by computer geeks for musicians." I do not know if I necessarily agree, but I do find that Sibelius is so much easier to use and control than Finale. The photo-scanning software with Sibelius is called Photoscore. It basically allows you to scan in an entire piece of music with all of the notation still included. As for part editing, in Finale you have to change both the score and the part, or change the score and extract the part again with the correction. In Sibelius, the part changes automatically after the score has been changed.
Going to a presentation on Sibelius was the one of the greatest things I could have done in regards to notation software. This year I purchased Sibelius 4 and would never go back to Finale.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-27 17:02
I fight a lot with Finale, and a friend swings with it.
The scanning system in my Finale 2005b is very error prone --particularly if the music has a lot of beams on the note stems. It remains a mystery to me how to scan, say a Bb clarinet part and paste it in to a score --and keep the correct key signature.
I always extract the parts from the score --making corrections in the score and tossing the incorrect part.
I live in about the 2nd percentile of clerical competence, so I make many, many mistakes putting notes into Finale with mouse, keyboard and keypad.
My more successful colleague has a midi set-up tied to his computer; and he inputs note (pitches) with his left hand on the keyboard --while using the numerical keypad to set note durations. He's fast --almost able to put in fast passage in real-time.
I'm almost never happy with the appearance of my manuscripts --often have to stretch measures to get enough space between notes to be able to read them.
I missed a chance to take a day-long course on Finale and won't do that again. Life would be better if I knew the shortcuts.
I had a quick look at Sebelius, was attracted to the orchestra sounds; but couldn't find out enough about it to change from my more familiar Finale. I'd like to have version 2006 to get the improved instrument voices, but am having trouble getting the publisher to recognize my purchase date as qualifying for the free upgrade.
Good luck, I don't lift a pencil to manuscript paper any more.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-12-28 15:01
One thing that bothered me about Finale was the complete lack of a "real" manual. True, there is a reference card as well as an "on-line" help system that uses a clunky, web browser based "manual" that is about as useful as a life ring on a Zeppelin, but I like to have a book in hand that I can keep focused on the problem areas without going through a cumbersome "look it up on the computer" system.
There are a lot of things well hidden by the program that are never going to jump out at you unless you do some extra reading. And, I'm not talking about complicated stuff (Gregorian chant notation, anyone?) but rather something so fundamental as the combining of multi measure rests into a one-bar symbol. It took me hours to figure that one out with the documentation provided with the program, but only minutes with an aftermarket guide to the program.
I bought two such books. One was very, very useful, if not a straight out and out manual (which I prefer). The other was completely useless, and it went into the charity donation pile within two days of the date of receipt. I'd give the title of the "good" one here, but it's at home right now.
It's my usual practice to spend the extra money to get a bound manual for every computer program that I buy. I don't recall what happened with Finale, but I was apparently not able to purchase one when I bought my upgraded copy.
(And, talk about sleasy. In order to acquire Finale 2006, I first bought a copy of Finale dating well back into the System 9 days (for Macintosh) at a Brook Mays sale where they were cleaning out the junk in their warehouse. Total cost there was all of $25.00. Then, it was zip to the Finale website, purchase the upgrade for about $150.00, enter the legitimate serial number from my purchased copy, and there you go...)
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-12-28 16:14
I have used Finale for years on a Mac. I don't yet have the latest version, but have been very content with it. When I have tried demos of Sibelius, I have found some things more cumbersome and have also found that there were some things I could not do easily. I guess it is what you are used to. I have never had issues with the manual which is on the computer in pdf format. It is much better than in the old days when it came as 3 huge manuals cross referenced. I find it very easy to look things up. If you are one of those who want a book something like
Finale: An Easy Guide to Music Notation by Tom Rudolf
would be a great choice. Tom is a real guru in the Finale and electronic music fields. You can easily find it on Amazon among other places.
if you don't need all of the bells and whistles and flexibility that Finale offers, you may consider something like Finale Allegro which allows you to do plenty, is a bit less expensive and a little easier to use. Most people don't need all of the features of Finale which is why they find it more difficult. It would be like getting Pagemaker because you want to type up an poster for a tag sale.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-28 16:33
Terry,
I agree whol-heartedly with your complaints about Finale documentation. My sales person tells me that there is a hard-copy version available --at a high cost. Please confirm the name of your preferred reference book.
Is it Ed's
Finale: An Easy Guide to Music Notation by Tom Rudolf?
Also, of course, you Mac guys have better lives than we pc people --particularly in all things graphics.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2005-12-28 17:49
Finale sells a spiral bound 4-pages-to-a-page (2 on recto, 2 on verso) printout of the pdf for version 6; about $30 as I recall. About 1.75" thick., 8.5"x11", bound on the 11" side. Awkward in your lap; OK if you've got the desk space for it.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-12-28 18:20
Bob: To get enough space between notes in Finale, select all (or just the bars you want) in mass edit, then press 4. Shame you don't use manuscript paper any more, though. I still can't write worth beans without it.
For making your score look professional once you have a handle on Finale, check out "Music Engraving Today" (Steven Powell)
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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