 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-20 15:32
While I was answering Inspiring Musician's topic about entering the world of professional mouthpieces, I remembered my first good mouthpiece. I thought perhaps it would be fun for us to share our experiences of how we discovered there were better things out there.
I'd played clarinet for a long time before anyone ever suggested buying a mouthpiece for the purpose of improving my sound. A friend who owned a music store told me that upper level players always buy professional mouthpieces and he suggested a few for me to try. I bought a Gigliotti and played it for several months, but didn't like the difficulty I had in getting volume. One day I was in his store and he said, "Here, try this one and tell me what you think. The professor at ___University here in town is recommending them to all his students." It was a Charles Bay and it was wonderful. I played Bays for several years after that.
That was the beginning of my search for the "Holy Grail" of mouthpieces. Now I am playing Greg Smith, Walter Grabner and Kaspars.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2005-12-20 15:39
Mine was also a Bay . . . all in handwritten script.
I like Smiths and Morgans now . . . but I wish I hadn't let my Bay get away from me!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-20 15:42
I agree about letting the Bay get away. I sold mine to a Russian clarinetist in 1996 for $200.00. He begged me non-stop for a month to sell it and I kept saying "no." But, at the end of our concerts when I was ready to go back to the states I finally gave in. He was such a nice guy and whined so pitifully. It was one of the old Chedeville blanks and had a wonderful tone. UGH! I should have been stronger.
Post Edited (2005-12-20 15:43)
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-12-20 15:47
Not my very first mouthpiece, but I was lucky enough to play all though high school on a Kaspar that belonged to my teacher. Unfortunately for me I had to return it, but now I've spent many years playing on a Greg Smith mp, and have no desire to try anything else!
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-20 15:53
My first private teacher put me on a Birlhart 5* --like everyone else in his studio. I remember that it allowed me to use really, really macho, hard Rico reeds.
Returning to my Buffet after my career-long lay off, I found the horn stuffy and unresponsive and started an eBay search --accumulating a bunch of mpcs for less than half the price of a pro-level piece.
Revalation: a refaced Mitchell-Lurie M3 that played like a dream and "unplugged" the horn.
Now, SIGH, I'm using a more finicky Vandoren M30 with a long, long lay. Best sound of my experience, but somewhat nasty breaking to the Altissimo and ...
... taking all that mpc in my mouth makes me slobber like a houndog. I have to carry a swab around all the time.
I played on a Chedeville something or other just for the experience a couple of weeks ago, and there may come a day, ...
Bob Phillips
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2005-12-20 16:55
My first mouthpiece switch came under rather unusual circumstances. In the 7th or 8th grade, my original mouthpiece was getting pretty grungy. A brass player said that I ought to boil it, which I think was a regular thing for brass players. Not knowing any better, I did. Well, it went from not so hot to downright awful, almost unplayable. It also turned from black to a kind of gray-brown color, which made it look as bad as it sounded. I knew Dad would be really mad if he found out that I had ruined a "perfectly good" mouthpiece, so I blacked it with a magic marker and saved my lawn mowing money. A week or so later I bought an HS* or Hite Premier (don't remember which, but I still have both). It played so well I wondered why I hadn't done that sooner.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-20 17:02
Tony, that's funny. I wonder how many of us accidentally wandered into the world of better mouthpieces by breaking, ruining, etc. the stock ones our instruments came with?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-12-20 17:58
My first good mp came with the purchase of my teacher's Penzel-Mueller Full Boehm Bb, a ?medium lay, O'Brien glass about 1934-5. I enjoyed it for a year or so, broke it, and not knowing better, replaced it with an O'Brien 2 S, and fought it for a while, switching to a hard rubber one for dance band hazardous duty! Many more explorations thru college, engineering job, bands, orchs etc, and are still underway. Us old folks have many memories, most of them good. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-20 18:48
My first good mouthpiece was a Vandoren B45. I still have it and it is really good. I told my teacher that a friend is coming from Italy so she said her favorite mouthpiece ever was a Pomarico (which broke) so my friend got me a Pomarico from Italy, and I played it for many years. That was until a little over a year ago when I tried an Eaton clarinet and the Eaton mouthpiece that came with it, and I've been playing on it since, and I don't see myself looking for any more mouthpieces any time soon, if ever.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-12-20 19:46
I guess my first good mp was a Larry Combs. I didn't even know what the mp was or how it was different: it was just my mp. I had no idea that it was better than any other mp. So, I used it for a few years to begin on, then I used in for HS marching band and one day I accidentally dropped in and it broke so I threw it away. I had no idea that it was better than a stock mp. So I was using the crappy stock mp for my wooden clarinet and I didn't know any better and so my clarinet teacher noticed that I was using a stock mp and he gave me a M15 and one of his handmade reeds to use for my audition the next day. I bought the mp from him after that. Then I got a new R13 and a K11 Walter Grabner to match it. The M15 is way too low pitched for my R13. So yeah...that's my mp journey so far. Who knows what will happen in a year when I'm in college. My teacher will probably make me switch... don't know though!
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-12-20 20:27
My first wooden clarinet had a mouthpiece that was nothing special, it just came with the clarinet when I bought it from an acquaintance back in 1973(?). But after a conversation with the music store owner in Ashtabula, Ohio I bought a Portnoy and it made a huge difference on that old clarinet! The Portnoy doesn't do anything for my Buffet R13 though.
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-12-20 20:33
I started with a B45 on my selmer plastic instrument for middle school. Got an R13 in 8th grade, kept using the B45. Switched teachers just before high school, and she recommended several mouthpieces for me to try. I tried three and they were all way too bright except for the Gigliooti P. I loved that mouthpiece for a long time, but (foolishly) used it in marching band. It warped and became even more resistant than it is new, and before I had bought a new mp, my clarinet studio had a masterclass with Tom Ridenour (I didn't know how fortunate that was at the time) and he recommended the VD M15 to me. I have now played the M15 on my R13 for 3 years, and I like it off and on (probably with my reed cycle). I would like to try a lot of different handmade mpc's like Greg Smith's or Behn's or Grabner's; maybe I'll try more at the Symposium or the ClarinetFest this year. There's probably a better one waiting out there somewhere for me, but maybe I shouldn't 'fix something that isn't broken'. My M15 has a very 'colorful' sound, but too strident at the top sometimes; I have to work quite a bit to control it.
-Tyler
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Author: Bill
Date: 2005-12-20 20:40
I "upgraded" through a B45 and 5RV to a Morgan RM10. The Morgan was the first mouthpiece *revelation* I had, and someone I admired in the Kalrinet newsgroup (named Everett Austin) played an RM15 (so I felt I was doin' good). Altissimo ppp was easy. I played the Morgan for a long time until, one day, I discovered that a "French" mpc (Selmer C85) gave me much nicer lower tones. I never went back to the Morgan (but I still have it).
From the Morgan, I started a long process that took me through so many items. This year, I finally got a Kaspar 13 (albeit refaced) as well as a 50's and 70's Chedeville. The 50's Chedevilel was done by Terry Guidetti, and the 70's Ched by Brad Behn. Both are like cognac on a cold night.
These days, I find some of the humbler items play quite well for me. My old (pre-"Clarion") HS** crystal is - fabulous - and I have found a wonderful Penzel-Mueller.
I, too, love the Bays and have two of the Chedeville ones. The better of the two is an "M-M" from Chester Rowell (as are several of my mpcs), and it's perfect if you're in the mood for a very what I might call an "edgy" sound - penetrating and clear, yet still "dark" (I'm still waiting for Dan Leeson to come out of the bushes andask for definitions for these terms!!! - I still need to read his book!!!!).
A circular logo Bettoney I *found* still gives great pleasure.
I try to keep an open mind.
Bill. (P.S. LOVE my Vytas Krass facings! A great artist and technician ....)
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Author: Stewie Griffin
Date: 2005-12-20 21:31
My first GOOD mouthpiece was a Hite Premiere (one of the ones made when David was alive.), which I replaced with a Vandoren M15. I also had a Kaspar Chicago which was THE best mouthpiece ever that I had tried (refaced by Matsen). I believe the rubber formulation of it was good because my dog, then an eccentric puppy, well...I'm sure you get the point.
Since then, I have bought and owned a Vandoren M15, Gennusa GE (made by Ben Redwine), Clark Fobes CF+, and a Livengood Kaspar.
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Author: William
Date: 2005-12-20 21:34
My mouthpiece history:
Bundy Golden-Tone
Selmer HS**
Kaspar Chicago #14
Bay Ithica custom 1970 which I played until about 1990
Glenn Bowen custom from WW G8 blanks
Current mouthpiece(s) of choice: Kaspar #14 & Bay 1970 Ithica for orchestra and wind ensemble. Bowen for jazz.
(the rest I have "thrown overboard" alla Bonade advice)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-12-20 23:28
This thread is RIGHT up my alley!!!
I played on a noname stock mouthpiece until the middle of freshman year in high school. I did well enough on it, but my HS instructor recommended I get a Vandoren B45 and upgrade. So I begged my parents, and ended up receiving one from good 'ol St. Nick instead. I never really paid much attention to detail/technique/etc. in high school and just did my best to play what was put in front me me, hence I never thought to look for other mouthpieces and just accepted whatever was given to me.
I took two years off after High School from playing altogether. Then when I went to college, and my professor (a student of Gigliotti) pushed the gigliotti mouthpiece on me. It was my first taste of well made professional mouthpiece. Around that time, I joined this board and found out that Dave Spiegelthal refaced mouthpieces. I was having slight troubles with the mouthpiece, sent it away to Dave, and when it returned, it played WONDERFULLY. About this point I started playing more and more often, and I realized (through this board) that different mouthpieces play differently, and just how many were available to try. So I tried and tried and tried. (incidentally, Brenda, I too found out that it was a little hard to get volume out of my gigliotti. Although everything else was phenominal. I liked the tone and articulation, particularly with a very hard reed which my mouthpiece, the P, was designed for - I'm considering trying out at my future position another gigliotti, but perhaps the 2 or 3 model).
But that gigliotti was the first taste of professional quality mouthpiece that I had (the B45 I had in comparison was crap). I just RECENTLY sold it.
Alexi
PS - Right now I'm working off of a Bay as well. Very nice mouthpiece, and I haven't had time to thoroughly try it out and match a reed type/size to it, but am hanging on to it as it shows definite promise in that when I played the last concert, the conductor, the clarinet teacher at the college, said to me, "I don't know what you changed from last week, but whatever you changed, leave it JUST LIKE THAT. You sound the best you've ever sounded. Whatever mouthpiece, clarinet, reed, whatever you're using, KEEP IT!"
I beamed with pride. Still need to work on technique though so I can play with my sound no matter WHAT music is put in front of me.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-12-21 01:49
My first was an old Selmer HS** which came with the clarinet my uncle gave me to play on. It was so warped that it was no wonder I felt that playing clarinet was so difficult, as I was originally a sax player (SSSHHHHH!!!!!) From there, I switched to a Portnoy BP02 because that's what my first teacher played on. I played that for about 2 years. I then switched to a Gigliotti because that's what Tony wanted and I played that until college, (about 2 years) and then changed to a Bay that Charlie made for me. Then, I played a Chedeville that Rick Sayre refaced, then a Kaspar 11 that my teacher gave to me, which didn't work out well so I gave it back to him. Went back to the Sayre refaced Ched, switched to an original Ched from the 1940s. From there I played on a Langenus for 1 year and then got my first Opperman. I've played on this for 6 years now and have no intentions of changing, despite the fact that I have a whole box of mouthpieces from all vintages including about 20 or so Kaspars, Cheds, Bettoneys and Lelandais. Now I have 4 other Oppermans and some Behn refaced stuff and I figure it's time to get out of the mouthpiece game
--Michael
http://www.michaelnorsworthy.com
P.S. I'm not selling anything, so please, no emails about it :-)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-12-21 01:55
Quote:
I've played on this for 6 years now and have no intentions of changing, despite the fact that I have a whole box of mouthpieces from all vintages including about 20 or so Kaspars, Cheds, Bettoneys and Lelandais. Now I have 4 other Oppermans and some Behn refaced stuff and I figure it's time to get out of the mouthpiece game And perhaps time to join the "opening shop and spreading the wealth" game!
j/k. I'll probably end up with a collection similar to that in the future with my habits. Cause in my mind, even (especially?) with mouthpieces it's not the destination that i'm look forward to, but rather the journey.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2005-12-21 02:10)
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-12-21 03:14
In our smaller/type city, there were very few mpc's available. I upgraded from a no name to a Selmer HS* (after trying all our one music store had.) But it wasn't too good for me. I finally found my favorite mpc in a woodwind specialty store in Oakland, (after trying every mpc in the store--LOTS of mpc's). The Borbeck #14 and #16 really suited me. I did blind tests and had my wife listen to every one. I chose what sounded best to me and her without knowing what I was choosing. Just weeding out what was not fun to play and did not sound as good, until what was left was what I bought. They had the tone, volume, and "feel" that worked well for me.
I now have 5 Borbecks (You gotta have backups, right?) and 2 Walter Grabner "Jazz" mpc's as my favorites.
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
Post Edited (2005-12-21 03:17)
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Author: BassClarinetGirl
Date: 2005-12-21 03:33
Cheer for the Rico Royal B5 that now looks pretty as a paperweight/deskornament!!!
(what a horrid piece of junk)
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-12-21 05:16
My first good piece was a Selmer B* that came as stock with my mid-seventies 10s. I still play that clarinet, but I've been through one or two piece since then...
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Author: hartt
Date: 2005-12-21 05:30
Brenda, you're asking me to remember/recall back 40 yrs. I have difficulty remembering what I bought at the food store this morning.
I was using the stock buffet C mp. In '64, the summer before my sr yr in HS, I attended a summer workshop at Ithaca college. The instructor was Charlie Bay. My then teacher, Russianoff, said 'talk to him about a mp'
During that workshop, Charlie made me a mp from an original rod rubber chedville blank that he had.
We sat for hrs; I tooted, he whittled, I tooted, he whittled some more.
When done, he hand engrraved the mp with his name, Ithaca college, Ithace, NY and the tip opening and actual length of the facing.
I used that mp throughout Hartt. While at Hartt, my then teacher, Opperman, made me a mp. I guess (don't recall) it was ok but it went the way of your Kaspar but without the bubblewrap.
I had stopped playing for 25 or so yrs and when I began again, I had some difficulty playing the old Bay mp so I gave it away to a then friend. I guess she still has it. (I hope / wonder if she knows what she really has).
I went back to the old original Buffet C and liked it. I've tried commercial mps, Smiths, a Hite (which i should have kept) and newer Bay's (1970 vintage) but didn't care for it.
For a few yrs now, I'm using a Fobes SanFran which Clark made for me and immensely like the sound, focus, ease of articulation and control.
He also made one for one of my eefer's, and alto and tenor sax. Sopsax, I use a stock Yamaha 4c; I like the sound with the plastic rather than the rubber.
so much for memory lane
dennis
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-21 12:23
Dennis, I had to go back 46 years to remember. You can do it!!
I haven't gotten the broken Kaspar back from Walter Grabner yet, but he tells me it's a gonner. I have, however, purchased an Ann Arbor Kaspar from an eBay seller and should have it before Christmas.
Those of you who are hoarding a bunch of great classic mouthpieces (and you know who you are), please don't feel bad about the rest of us who struggle to scrape together workable equipment. You know, those of you who have MULTIPLE Kaspars, Chedevilles, etc. Sigh!
Post Edited (2005-12-21 12:27)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-21 13:23
First one was generic, I guess....I bit too hard on it, and it shattered...little round beads embedded in plastic or rubber flew out. I was 8 yrs. old at the time.
I remember spitting out the little bits of beads...they were the size of time realease particles.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-21 14:03
Bundy which came with the instrument
then a crystal selmer (hey, it was pretty!), portnoy, vandoren b-45, sunmer, Vandoren 5RV lyre which I played through high school, and then finally the Gigliotti P.
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Author: dundee
Date: 2005-12-21 14:31
I can't remember my first first mouthpiece either. It came with my first clarinet which was a Conn and that was 70 yrs. ago last September!! Now using the first Gennusa produced, and am still going strong playing in the
Central Arizona Concert Band and the Prescott Chamber Players Society.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-21 14:38
dundee, good for you! I hope I'm still able to hold the instrument when I'm 80 (that will be 70 years of playing for me).
Alseg,
I'm fascinated by the little round beads (time release sized). As you know, I'm a world-class mouthpiece breaker and have never seen anything like that.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-21 15:14
I have not seen anything like it since then. I suspect it was a cheap plastic mpc. Perhap the molding process was faulty, since I did not bite very hard.
The little particles that were embedded were white, as I recall.
It was preowned and came with the c. 1932 instrument. I do not think it was the original mpx that was supplied brand new with the horn when it was first purchased. E and S made a good horn back then, and had a nice mpx. FWIW, The item that I destroyed with youthful zeal is totally unlike a remarkable hard rubber billet that I am experimenting with now.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-21 16:17
The white part makes it even a stranger thing. I wonder if anyone on the board has had such an experience or might know what kind of mouthpiece it was.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-12-21 23:55
Brenda,
I had an old brilhart mouthpiece that had a white part to "bite" on. It was soft enough to show very significant tooth indents after playin.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-22 01:33
Alseg, was the mouthpiece white? Or was it only white inside? Do you think it could have been a Brilhart?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-12-22 01:40
Attachment: brilhart.jpg (115k)
FYI,
Attached is a photo of a sax brilhart mouthpiece. The mouthpiece that I was referring to above (white bite part) is VERY much like this one. Except for clarinet. Also had "brilhart" writton across it in a similar fashion.
Alseg, can you remember if that mouthpiece resemble the structure of this one? (white bite plate surrounded by black? Ebolin?)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2005-12-22 01:42)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-22 02:06
Nope. It was all black. ...at least until it suffered the buccal quake.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Chalumeau Joe
Date: 2005-12-22 02:30
Stock Evette (1969)
Stock R13 (1975)
Morgan Protone (2005)
VD M13 (2005)
(Easier to remember what my first reed was: R _ _ _ )
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Author: DH818
Date: 2005-12-22 03:22
My favorites...tried a picture but didn't work...Pedler,Wells Chicago,Babbitt,Langenus,Brilhart Personaline,Olympian...
Donald C Hinson
Post Edited (2005-12-22 03:40)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-22 13:33
A black mouthpiece that when broken spews forth teeny little white balls that look like the inside of a time-release capsule. This is indeed a mystery.
I had a white Brilhart jazz mouthpiece once. I thought the sound was too bright.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-03-14 14:50
1. The thing that came with my c.1980 B&H Regent
2. The same thing again (!) after I broke that one on concert night (everyone's done it at least once, surely?)
3. The thing that came with my c.1985 E11
4. 5RV (now we're talking!)
5. Selmer C85-120 (I later bought an entire clarinet on the basis of that experience)
5. 5RV (again?)
6. B45 dot. What an animal. I think this one might be bigger than I am, but I'm going to give it a go...
*
I have this strange hunch that if I knew WHY I'd progressed in this manner, I'd be rich...
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-03-14 15:13
Its fun to review an older thread, isn't it ? As in "my" related, current thread, I' looking forward to trying-out an old Langenus and a very early wood Bundy shortly. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-03-14 23:30
My first professional (sort-of) mouthpiece was a Vandoren B45, as it was what people told me to get. About 6 months later, I got my pomarico crystal as a gift.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: Bill G
Date: 2006-03-15 02:41
My first clarinet, a used Albert system, which I aquired 69 years ago, was equipped with a wooden mouthpiece complete with deep teeth indentations from a prior owner. I played this rig for about six years, rising to first chair in an excellent high school band. I still have that clarinet and mouthpiece, but have played a variety of horns and mouthpieces since then with a Brilhart 3* having the longest tenure. I'm using a Vandoren M30 at present, but the facing is too long. I'm tempted to go back to my first setup.
Bill G
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Author: Bnewbs
Date: 2006-03-15 04:56
In My comparitively short time playing:
-Hite Premier that came with a used '72 E12MM.
-Selmer C*, some issues with the facing I suspect, but better than the Premier.
-Vandoren M13, that was a big improvement.
-Selmer C95-119, for my to this point failed attempts at jazz, unusually full rich sound though.
-now onto custom Grabner/Hill.
Ben
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Author: Lee
Date: 2006-03-15 14:11
I played on the mp that came with my Buffett through Jr high, high school and college. Then quit playing for a little over 15 years. When our church started an orchestra picked up the horn again and continued playing on the sane mp. Found a Buffett crystal in a local music store and bought it -- it ruined my intonation. Gave it to a friend who found it worked great. Then tried a Larry Combs LC3 for several years. Then tried an Pyne PolyCrystal. Just bought a Bay Nuance which works well for me. I expect to use it for some time.
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