 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-12-14 06:08
Saw one in a music store today, a used Noblet, plastic, about six years old, very good condition. I had never played an alto, nor even seen one in the flesh... er, wood... I mean, petroleum-based products. Tried it out. Thinking of buying it, maybe.
I noticed I needed a totally different embouchure above the register break. Needed to soften my lower lip considerably, to get the notes out. Is this normal? Mouthpiece provided just says "Steelebonite", and "Made in France". It seems to have a very close tip, and the previous player was using medium LaVoz alto clarinet reeds with it. Much more resistant than the soprano clarinets I am used to.
I have nothing to compare this to and would have to do the "order three, send back two" bit from WW and BW or other internet store since the local music stores don't seem to stock new ones and this is the first used one I've run into.
Also, how do you use the vent in the top plateau key?
Opinions?
Steve Epstein
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2005-12-14 06:15
The lip thing is normal and is also something you'll experience on the Bass Clarinet. There are lots of threads with new Bass Clarinet players trying to hit the high notes and having to be told what you discovered.
The vent in the "F#" key is just like a half hole, you roll your index finger down to the lower part of the key to leave the hole uncovered for altissimo notes. (Essentially makes it a second register key.) Again, this quality is shared with basses.
The big gotcha for altos is that few of them tune well. If its a well-tuned horn, you're probably in good shape.
The custom mouthpiece makers who have a heart for harmony clarinets (Grabner, Fobes, Garrett) are starting to make Alto mouthpieces as well, and that would probably be the best place to look for a serious one. Ovbiously Selmer and Vandoren have some offerings as well that are worth considering.
Reeds are the same murky pool that they are on Bb - need to be matched to the mouthpiece, etc.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-12-14 06:30
Shorthand wrote:
>
> The big gotcha for altos is that few of them tune well.
>
I seem to have an affinity for this quality. I play a C-clarinet and a c-melody sax, and my eyes were also attracted to a little eepher hanging on the wall...
Steve Epstein
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Author: BassClarinetGirl
Date: 2005-12-14 13:39
As for reeds, personally I prefer to use LaVoz medium soft alto cl. reeds. I just move them up a little to make them a bit harder- the mediums are too hard, but the medium softs are just a tad bit soft, so I move it up for better security in the upper clarion notes and in the altissimo. It'll all depend on what mouthpiece you use, mix and match reeds and find what's right for you.
I love to play the alto clarinet- I'm playing it with a clarinet chior at my HS. I'll admit I wouldn't mind the more challenging eefer parts, but I still love my alto.
BCG
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-14 13:43
You should get a good mouthpiece right away. I played alto clarinet for several years and it is possible to keep it tuned properly. I had a Noblet that belonged to my school and it was a pretty good instrument. Thankfully I was the first player because the school was new and all the equipment was as well. But, a good ear and a good mouthpiece will go a long way to help with the alto's particular quirks. You can use alto sax music if you need to "play with others" and there isn't a part.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-12-14 15:39
Once you dip too much of your soul into the alto clarinet pool, you will be tarnished for all time. Resist the temptation and stay pure.
(The first money I ever earned from a musical source was a sawbuck from a Selmer rep for playing alto at a music teachers gathering, plus the gift of the alto's mouthpiece after we were done. (I would have been playing bass, but the swine from a better connected high school had already hogged up the two slots in the choir.) I also took the precaution of lifting a couple of the bass mouthpieces in use at that gathering, so (on balance) I considered it to have been a success...)
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
Post Edited (2005-12-14 15:39)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-12-14 15:40
Good commentary, y'all, I'll add my A C experiences. Trying/owning a number of AC makes, I found the Selmer-Paris [B series] to be the very best, "in search of" a relative of the Basset Horn. Except for one old "Olympia" mp, other mps were poor to bad ! I discussed Pomaricos with Riccardo, bot a #3 mellow, best so far, possibly Dave S could even improve it ?? I also am keeping an OLD Pedler AC, which has Double Register Keying [quite unusual !] but no "oboe's half-hole" [and only to low E]. I haven't found many altissimo fingerings are needed in band music, some can be had by "overblowing 5th/7th". I also prefer LaVoz reeds, med-soft for a fairly wide tip mp. As to music, if I dont have AC parts, I'll play 2nd alto sax or bari sax, [octave down where possoble]. IF you are blessed [as we were] re: a VG rearrangement for band of L'Arlesienne Suite 2 [and 1] which has some fine AC parts/solos, tonal quality becomes very important and can be achieved. Luck and have enjoyment. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Bnewbs
Date: 2005-12-14 19:33
I have an old Kohlert wood alto with a Selmer C* mouthpiece. I definately need a softer emboucher, even with VD #3.5s. I dojn't find alto's to be especially resistent, but I use a pretty resistant setup on my sopranos. I have been experiementing with Gonzales alto sax reeds, but they don't fit the C* all that well. I am thinking about trying a Hite alto mpc, apperantly they made specifically for sax reeds, which gives you a lot more possibilties in reed choice. I have never liked the plastic ones (selmer 1425, Vito 7165 ect), good used one might be worth the wait if you can find one. I bought mine on ebay (for a little under $300), it took a little clean up work and a trip to the repair shop, but nothing serious and it works well now. I have heard a few horror stories with ebay, so if you do go that way be careful.
Ben
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-12-14 19:46
Of all the sizes of clarinets (from BBb contrabass to Eb soprano) I've always found the Eb alto to be the hardest to get used to. It seems to be neither fish nor fowl: in the chalumeau register it feels SORT OF like a bass clarinet, but in the clarion and altissimo it's closer to a Bb soprano clarinet feel and response, yet still different enough to be a 'new' instrument in its own right. I'm not sure what the right approach to playing alto is, but if I had any advice it would be: stay open-minded and don't try to force-fit any particular embouchure, or reed/mouthpiece setup, to the alto based on your experience with other sizes of clarinet. Just keep trying different approaches and different equipment until you found a Golden Mean that works for you. I guess this isn't much help, but then again, it was cheap advice...........
Post Edited (2005-12-14 20:07)
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Author: HungryTurkey
Date: 2005-12-15 03:31
I started playing the alto because no one wanted to and I haven't looked back (by choice!)
I'm on a Selmer-Paris right now with a C* mouthpiece. Before when I started, I had an older wooden Vito with a C* mouthpiece...believe it or not, the Vito was easier to tune and sounded a little "prettier".
I don't like the LaVoz reeds, but it's a personal preference. I really like VD's response, but have only tried LaVoz, Rico Royale, & Vandoren along with a few random Alto Sax reeds.
The embrochure is a little difficult, but I found when I got used to it, it's all good (I, however, never played the bass so no comparison there..only Eb Soprano, Bb Sop. & Alto).
Good luck!
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-12-15 13:00
Nice to hear some positive comments from alto players - there's been far too much badmouthing of them on this board in the past!
I'm just getting the feel of my new alto, a 1950's vintage FA Uebel. Most difficult for me is getting used to the angle of the mouthpiece and the resulting jaw position, although I never noticed this as an issue on bass clarinet somehow.
My horn has a narrow bore so uses a basset horn mouthpiece with Bb reeds. It came with the original Uebel mp, which plays fine, although if I ever have the opportunity to play the alto more seriously it would be nice to try out some others, if I can find any with the right bore size. I've been using a Legère #3 reed for now, to remove one variable while I get to know the instrument. I've also had difficulty getting a nice legato over the break, partly because the A key is quite heavy, partly perhaps some leaks near the bottom of the horn? Overall, I really enjoy the feel and sound of the instrument, and I don't feel like I'm fighting it like I always did playing a borrowed alto in clarinet choir many years ago.
I'm hoping to be able to use the alto in informal chamber music get-togethers, since bassoon or cello parts can be read directly as if they were in treble clef (with appropriate key signature adjustments), so long as they remain in bass clef and don't venture up into tenor or alto clefs.
Any of you alto players know if it's possible to buy replacement necks? My horn plays reasonably sharp overall, being more pronounced with the short tube notes than the long notes, so a slightly longer neck should solve my pitch issues, although again an odd bore size will limit my options.
Happy playing everyone!
Joanne
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-12-15 18:11
H'mmm. The concept of an aftermarket industry for sax necks is well established. Could a similar arrangement be forthcoming for alto clarinet necks?
Nahhh...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-15 18:23
Imagine how difficult that'd be, practically every alto clarinet make past and present has it's own crook, now there's Amati, Noblet/Vito, Leblanc, Selmer (Paris), Selmer (USA), Yamaha, [fill in any I've left out]...
Anyone thinking of going into this market is either insane or a multi-millionaire who wouldn't miss any loss.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-12-15 20:24
...Plus they'd all have to be made of sterling silver, or solid gold, or...
No, wait - that's for the Mark VI and the flute market...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-15 20:36
A bit too much of a niche market that.
But I wonder if anyone will take the bait?
Let's set the challenge...
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-12-16 16:27
Last night I played my wife's Leblanc Paris alto clarinet for the first time. It was purchased this year off eBay and then regulated by a tech who is also a clarinet player.
I found a low Eb key that is not on my Bb soprano clarinet. What's the strategy here. Is the a call for this key alot? Is it like the low A on a bari sax that only shows up in modern day charts?
Also, with the keys depressed, such as a G1 or a D2, where the number is based on the first and lowest note in the series, the instrument is VERY soft. We had purchased a Vandoren B40 because I read about the improve intonation found on more closed pieces. Neither Suzy or I like the really closed piece. I use a Ralph Morgan R15 (jazz) and Suzy uses a Vandoren B45* (legit) on our soprano clarinets. Our reeds are 2.5 to 3 in strength.
Is there a better mouthpiece for the alto that will make the instrument a bit louder?
Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-12-16 17:05
Jim,
The low-Eb key on alto clarinets is basically copied from the presence of same on bass clarinets, which in turn exists to allow Bb bass clarinets to play the (too-numerous!) orchestral parts which were written for the essentially non-existent bass clarinet pitched in A (analogous to the low-Eb key on full-Boehm Bb soprano clarinets which allows them to play all the notes of a transposed "A" clarinet part). I've only played a little bit of alto clarinet in concert bands, so I can't tell you how frequently and in what time-period of music the low Eb note is actually called for.
Your problem sounds like a byproduct of the typical Leblanc single-register-vent design, which usually makes the 'long' clarion note (especially B2 and C2 as I believe you're numbering them) very stuffy and resistant -- the effect can carry over into even higher notes such as the D2, especially if the pads don't all seal well and/or the pad heights of the large lower pads are too low (as they are often set on the larger clarinets, unfortunately).
Many stock alto clarinet mouthpieces are too closed AND have too short a facing. All you can get out of such a mouthpiece is a tiny little toot of sound.
Check with Clark Fobes, Walter Grabner, etc. for good mouthpieces that will give you some tone AND dynamic range.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-12-16 17:05
Jim,
The low-Eb key on alto clarinets is basically copied from the presence of same on bass clarinets, which in turn exists to allow Bb bass clarinets to play the (too-numerous!) orchestral parts which were written for the essentially non-existent bass clarinet pitched in A (analogous to the low-Eb key on full-Boehm Bb soprano clarinets which allows them to play all the notes of a transposed "A" clarinet part). I've only played a little bit of alto clarinet in concert bands, so I can't tell you how frequently and in what time-period of music the low Eb note is actually called for.
Your problem sounds like a byproduct of the typical Leblanc single-register-vent design, which usually makes the 'long' clarion notes (especially B2 and C2 as I believe you're numbering them) very stuffy and resistant -- the effect can carry over into even higher notes such as the D2, especially if the pads don't all seal well and/or the pad heights of the large lower pads are too low (as they are often set on the larger clarinets, unfortunately).
Many stock alto clarinet mouthpieces are too closed AND have too short a facing. All you can get out of such a mouthpiece is a tiny little toot of sound.
Check with Clark Fobes, Walter Grabner, etc. for good mouthpieces that will give you some tone AND dynamic range.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-12-16 19:46
David sez: Your problem sounds like a byproduct of the typical Leblanc single-register-vent design, which usually makes the 'long' clarion notes (especially B2 and C2 as I believe you're numbering them) very stuffy and resistant -- the effect can carry over into even higher notes such as the D2, especially if the pads don't all seal well and/or the pad heights of the large lower pads are too low (as they are often set on the larger clarinets, unfortunately).
Jim (aka Gandalfe) sez: Hmm... we're looking for a great bass clarinet. Maybe we should stick to Kohlerts and walk away from the Leblanc Paris? My Bb soprano and Eb alto clarinets are Leblanc Paris. I just love the intonation on these instruments.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-12-16 19:58
Jim aka Gandalfe,
I too am a big fan of Leblanc soprano clarinets -- I've never understood why they seem to be less popular than R-13s. But in the bass clarinet world, the Leblancs, IMHO, are under-developed and overpriced. Don't get me wrong, I've played a few fabulous Leblanc bass clarinets (and Larry Bocaner likes them, and he's got more bass clarinet credentials in his thumb than I have in my entire body) --- but in my experience the percentage of Leblanc bass clarinet "dogs" is way too high for a line of instruments marketed to the professional player. By all means try them, but be prepared to try many in order to find a really good one.
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