The Clarinet BBoard

Closet clarinetist

Author: Mofiddler  Date:   2005-12-06 05:24 I am an amateur violinist/violist who plays in a bunch of local orchestras and musicals and most recently (until last month, when everything changed), a budding cellist. This happened when I became intrigued with a Gretcsh 'Pathfinder' sitting in a second-hand furniture shop owned by my neighbor in suburban Philly. Well, the seller/neighbor was right, the Gretcsh was indeed 'just a wall ornament' - I could get almost no sound out of it - , but that intrigued me, so on a whim I bought a new Jupiter 'Parisienne' (it's nice!) and a #2 Rico Reed and the Bb Clarinet 'Essential Elements' and learned 'Scarborough Fair' and 'Row,Row your boat' and now I really want to learn the good stuff like the Mozart clarinet quintet, and the Brahms Sonatas that I have been playing on the other side of the fence. And I'd ultimately like to get some jazz experience... So then I bought some vanDoren reeds which were #3 and a little stiff and dry for my fledgling lips so I over-used the Rico #2 and then bought some Penzol #3's that I really like and much better than the VanDoren #3 (but I still squeak at times). When I graduated (of sorts) from 'Essential Elements' I moved to Baerman 1st&2nd division but cannot play break the 'B barrier' or whatever you call it...I can play eg an A followed by a B with effort, but it has no fluidity or speed although I am pretty much OK with many of the speed excercises in the Baeurman repetitions (#6) as long as they don't break the barrier; it feels like it takes a long time for the B to 'take' in the A-to-B repetitions? I think maybe I am doing excessive huffing/puffing. So, needless to say I've been spending several weeks on Baermann #7-10 and still the high C is sometimes like throwing a dart (60% hit rate) unless I'm really warmed up. But I'm getting there, every day some progress and fewer squeaks. Also am wondering if I need a different ligature or reeds or something, or is it all 'operator error'. I do have the Jupiter mouthpiece and also trying a Claude Lakey mouthpiece, but I haven't seemed to hit on the perfect reliable combo of reed/mouthpiece/human operator yet. I'm wondering if the Baermann Divison #2 is a good intermediate book at my stage. I also got Jay Armold's '66 Selected Studies' which looks like a nice compilation of Kietzer, Gambaro, and Rose etudes (and only 8.95!). I did try the first page of the Mozart Clarinet quintet and suprised myself that I can play a lot of it (though would flunk a metronome test. ...Just to let you clarinetists know you have a most intriguing instrument that you are devoted to...and now getting a good sound of it is my new Holy Grail... But uggh this is all eating into Kreutzer and all that violin/viola/cello practicing I should really be doing.... Cheers! Maureen Maureen

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Re: Closet clarinetist

Author: ron b  Date:   2005-12-06 06:51 I'm very happy you've sampled some of the "greener grass" in this area of our vast musical pasture, Maureen. I'm also happy to be one of the initial well-wishers to you as you persue broadening your musical experiences. If at all possible collar one of your clarinet playing friends and ask her/him to show you the basics to get you started in the right direction. You want to develop good playing habits right from the beginning. As you already know, it's harder to un-do a bad habit than it is to form a good one straight away. A clarinet player will also be able to help you sort out "operator error" from equipment hang up in short order. It's been mentioned here a few times before but worth repeating: Arban's (trumpet method) is about as good a method book as any. I've found over the years that *Keep it Simple* is as good advice now as it was when they invented the phrase. Don't "get ahead of yourself".... Here's Tootin' to ya, Maureen - rn b - [Don't spread this around but, I've since early on, had a hankering (shhhh) -- to play the violin and... my wife is a 'cellist.]

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Re: Closet clarinetist

Author: ron b  Date:   2005-12-10 08:16 Sounds like you're off to a fairly good start, Maureen. I'm happy to read that you're staying with it. I gave a violinist friend a clarinet last year and after a few starts and a few pauses he's settled down to playing about twenty to thirty minutes a day, four to five times a week last time I saw him. Last time I heard him play (for me), he was sounding pretty okay. I recommended a softer reed and that made it easier for him to get a decent sound with fewer squeaks. The thing I, and many "real" teachers, try to do is make playing the horn *fun*. If we can't have a few laughs and chuckles, it just ain't worth the effort... ...anyway, I think it boils down to this -- if you're enjoying the experience it's not work and don't even dare to turn it into work. Those facial and mouth muscles are doing things they're not used to doing. But, if you don't force yourself to over-do they'll get used to doing what you need 'em to do in their own time. When they get accustomed to the routine they won't complain much and your cheekbones won't dominate everything. It'll begin to feel "normal". I believe it takes about three to six months before the muscles begin to enjoy making music. It takes patience. Equipment and its mixture may seem complicated when it's unfamiliar. As with most things mechanical, though, it all seems to work best (for me, anyway) when you "Keep It Simple". Good reed, good mouthpiece, horn has no bad leaks... Keep pickin' those clarinetters' brains, take what works for you now and store the rest for future reference. Clarinetists love to hand out free advice (well, we might as well face the truth, 'they're full of it'.... Keep posting too, Maureen. A lot of folks, newcomers and old-timers alike, are encouraged by your progress... a lot more than you might imagine. - ron b -

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Re: Closet clarinetist

Author: Mofiddler  Date:   2005-12-15 03:45 Hi, Ron, Yeah, it's so much fun to take up new instruments. I wonder why it took 35 full years to even consider venturing from violin to the viola when that one is what's considered to be a very easy transition. Regarding repertoire, yes, I did notice that there's not much for the clarinet at least when it comes to chamber music that's sight-readable. It's funny how the viola repertoire is said to be scanty; but at least that has all the string quartets! I go to a chamber music workshop week many recent years up in northern Vermont (VermontMusicandArts) and it's lots of fun and that's where I got exposed to playing with clarinetists. (They, by the way, they have their own nice music library (catalogued on their website)). It has an enthusiastic woodwind following, very abundant with clarinets. Wonderful coaches that actually play in your ensemble with you. There I dabbled as violin/viola in the Kagglestatt (sic), Brahms, Mozart quintet, and some Bruch clarinet/piano trio pieces, and some difficult to sight-read but potentially wonderful Hindemith for violin and clarinet. But it did seem that the clarinetists were playing just the Mozart and Brahms and they were playing it 3 and 4 times a day(!!) and not complaining due to paucity of sight-readable/ familiar repertoire for strings/clarinet. I never thought of the need to develop transposition skills. That would be very new for me. (I do suspect that it wouldn't come naturally). Does one get better at it with practice? Maureen

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Re: Closet clarinetist

Author: mgoetze  Date:   2005-12-15 15:28 Transposition definitely gets easier with practice (though a solid knowledge of music theory certainly doesn't hurt, either). Transposing C parts to Bb is almost second nature for me by now; recently I amused myself by playing the 2nd Brandenburg Concerto Trumpet in High F part on my Bb Clarinet (i.e. a perfect 5th higher than written), but you might find those notes a bit high for the next few years. I like Bach's 2-part inventions as transposition practice, nos. 1, 4, 5, 11, 13 and 14 are good for starting on if you just want to transpose to Bb. For those who want to practice random transpositions, try playing them so that the lowest note is also the lowest note of your clarinet, e.g. nos. 1 and 2 down a minor 6th, no. 3 down a perfect 4th... (referring to the 1st parts, obviously. Bass clarinetists should try the 2nd parts as well!) Another occasionally useful skill to have is reading alto clef transposed up to Bb, i.e. playing viola music on clarinet.

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Transposition tip for Mofiddler

Author: eskil  Date:   2005-12-16 17:29 Mofiddler - great to hear that someone crosses over from strings to wind. Myself, I'm trying to learn to play the guitar - a very odd instrument for a clarinet player! Just holding it felt awkward to begin with! When it comes to transposing - I always felt it was near impossible to transpose on the fly. Way too much to think about in too little time! But then I started wondering why it is quite easy to jump between the saxophone and the clarinet without getting your fingerings mixed up when playing to sheet music... I mean, the fingerings are fairly similar, but are used for different written notes depending on what instrument you're playing. Like the "no fingers at all" fingering, which is used on the sax when you see a written C sharp, but on the clarinet when you see a G. So I started over with the clarinet, from my first clarinet school book page one, and re-learned the fingerings. Only this time I used the fingering that actually produces the written note - it doesn't take many hours of practice to get this into your fingers. Not _that_ many, anyway. Now, it is a bit like playing three different wind instruments - the saxophone, the clarinet (the standard, transposing one), and the clarinet (the one that plays in written pitch). What I mean is that I don't really think of transposing as transposing, I just "switch instrument" mentally, and use the other set of fingerings instead. My fingers go automatically to the desired fingering without my brain being involved, sort of. I don't know, maybe all clarinetists picture transposing this way, but no-one explained it this way to me. I was trying to learn to think fast, but the trick was to learn all the fingerings in advance, so that I didn't _have_ to think fast, or even think at all! Hm, that didn't sound as good as I meant it... Hope this helps, and good luck with your clarinet playing! /Eskil

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Nope, Chris P, I'm not confusing...

Author: eskil  Date:   2005-12-16 19:54 Nope, Chris P, I'm not confusing transposing with doubling. I am talking about transposing, not doubling. Please observe that I use the same trusty standard clarinet in Bb in both instances in my previous post, both when I "play in Bb" and when I "play in C". I am NOT talking about doubling, as in using different instruments, like switching to a clarinet tuned in C. Instead, I talk about the mental picture I make of what it is that I need to do when I transpose a piece of written sheet music. Specifically, I talk about the situation where the entire band gets the same written sheet music, including me. In that situation I need to transpose the music up one full step, so that I play in tune with the rest of the band, even though I'm using a standard clarinet, tuned in Bb. You know, transposing! Again, to clarify: I am NOT suggesting that you switch to a clarinet in C to avoid the trouble of transposing. What I suggest is that you stay with the clarinet in Bb and learn all the fingerings you need to know when you transpose a piece of sheet music up one full step. My point is that you should learn those fingerings as methodically as you once learned the standard clarinet fingerings, one by one and at home, and NOT try to figure them out on the fly, when presented with the sheet music in a live music band situation. You, Chris P, mention in your post that transposition can get tricky. That was my exact point - if you do it my way it isn't tricky at all! It does take a number of days of methodical practice at home to learn the transposed fingerings so that they "go directly from the sheet music to your fingers, without taking a detour over your brain". But when you get to band session and the band leader says "change in the program, here's the new tune", you will have no trouble playing your Bb clarinet in tune with the rest of the band even if you get the exact same sheet music as the rest of the band. Don't think, just let your fingers play your instrument the right way! (No innuendo intended! ) Maybe you should just actually _read_ my previous post... I read yours, carefully, to make sure I didn't jump to conclusions or misunderstand what you have to say. I have no complaints about what you say, but I understand from what you say that you didn't understand what I had to say. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. For that I apologize. But hopefully, now that you have brought to light the shortcomings of my explanation, and thus given me the opportunity to improve on said explanation, ... Does this sound like Jack Sparrow? Hint: the quotation marks in my previous post, and in this one, are there for a reason. They mean that you shouldn't take what is said in between them literally, just see that stuff as mental pictures. Except the ones around the band leader quote. Hope this helps, and that I don't sound too harsh - I'm not in a harsh mood at all, quite the opposite actually! /Eskil

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Re: Closet clarinetist

Author: mgoetze  Date:   2005-12-17 02:04 While learning a "new set of fingerings" is certainly possible for the standard task of "play this music written in C on a Bb Clarinet", I expect it will quickly become awkward once you go beyond that... for my part, I just "visualize" the notes a couple of spaces/lines higher/lower, and mentally adjust the key signature accordingly. The only really tricky part is dealing with accidentals - especially accidentals that are only meant as friendly reminders but aren't actually necessary, ugh... But for pre-20th-Century music at least, a solid knowledge of which keys are related to which other keys, etc., usually makes this a manageable task. And if you want to memorize something, you can never know the circle of fourths/fifths too well! Indeed, transposing from C to Bb can be as easy as turning the circle by two fourths/fifths for every note... OK, I admit, visualizing is easier for me. But I wish I could do it like this.

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Re: Closet clarinetist

Author: DavidBlumberg  Date:   2005-12-20 15:13 I gave Maureen her 1st Clarinet lesson yesterday. She's doing very well!! The Jupiter Parisienne Clarinet that she had seemed to be very high quality and for the price a great deal, but the Barrel was basically "locked on", and there were 2 different crack locations in the instrument. I was amazed by the Barrel as it actually didn't fit on the upper joint AT ALL when I got it off finally. I'm talking the bottom barrel entrance was much smaller than the upper joint wood to the point that it wouldn't go on whatsoever. It was basically the equal of attempting to put the barrel on "upside down" it was so impossible to put on. So I let her use a Clarinet that I had which worked fine for her. Here's the bizarre thing: She worked with my X-wife and they had the same boss!! tis a very small world.......... Anyway, she's off to a great start and I know for sure that I certainly wouldn't be able to play the violin nearly as well as a beginner than she is playing the Clarinet already.

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Re: Closet clarinetist

Author: Mofiddler  Date:   2005-12-23 04:47 Oh, that was a sweet, unexpected finding on here. Thank you. But I must set the record straight; not only did we share a boss, but she was also my boss for a few years Anyway, just to let you know that I put my beloved Jupiter 'Parisienne' onto Fed Ex today and it's headed out to the Jupiter guy (who answered the phone on my first ring; maybe he's a Maytag repairman). He says it'll take 2 weeks for him to get/assess/make good. In the meantime I summoned a 'mutt' clarinet that will hopefully bark when I look down at it and demand that I walk it once a day when I get back from my Holiday vacation. In meantime I bought the Galper Method Book I and I like the textual suggestions about breathing there. I would always be tempted to take a breath at every rest opportunity, so let me see if I can reliably not do this. The best of Holidays to you all and thanks for your support. Maureen

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