 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-04-08 21:53
Please help!!!!!
OK I need to know if the german system is the same as the oehler and if the fingerings are similar to boehm, Not the pnky keys but the open holes and trill keys. Any help is greatly appreciated. please if you know tell me ASAP!!!!
thank
GRaham
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-04-08 22:35
gRAHAM wrote:
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Please help!!!!!
OK I need to know if the german system is the same as the oehler and if the fingerings are similar to boehm, Not the pnky keys but the open holes and trill keys. Any help is greatly appreciated. please if you know tell me ASAP!!!!
thank
GRaham
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No the fingering of the open holes and trills is not the same. German system is Oehler system (there are variations with more or less keys).
You could have found this and more by doing a simple search of the archives.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2000-04-08 23:34
Dear gRAHAM!
What we today call the German system is the same as the Oehler-system. Oscar Oehler made some improvements from the Baermann-system, developed by Carl Baermann and is the same system that he wrote his famous tutor for and played by Mühlfeld, Brahm's clarinetist. Baermann made his improvements from what we today call the "simple-system" that existed with a few variations in details depending on who the maker was. The fingerings differ a lot from the Boehm-system, also called the French system. H. E Klosé, who designed the Boehm-system after the theories of Theobald Boehm, wanted a more technically easier instrument with less cross-fingerings and less "sliding" between keys. He came from the Müller-system with 13-14 keys with no rings. He applied the ring-mechanism, invented by Boehm, to the clarinet and with the help of Auguste Buffét as a constructor, they invented the "Boehm"-system as we know it today.
The rings were soon applied on the Müller-system as well and since many makers had their own ideas how the clarinet should develop further in Germany, what we call the "Simple-system" came out with several variations.
The modern German/Oehler-system has still a lot of the old technical clumsiness but it's sound is preferred by many before the Boehm-system.
It's very difficult to describe the fingering differences in written text so I suggest that our web-master or someone else point out a good site with fingering-charts on both systems for an easier overlook
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Author: larry
Date: 2000-04-09 01:08
Another variant is the "reform boehm" system. This is, as I undestand it, a kind of middle ground hybrid between the french (boehm) and the german (oehler) systems. It offers the advantages of both: french fingering and mouthpiece with german venting and intonation. Since I'm not totally familiar with the reform boehm system, I'd be interested in hearing what others think of it. H. Wurlitzer makes a beautiful looking reform boehm clarinet, in addition to their german systems.
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Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-04-09 02:57
thanks for all the info.
I found a book by Anthony Baines called Woodwind instruments and thiers history that talks about the simple Boehm, full boehm, reform boehm, simple system, clinton system and the oehler system. Its a really cool book if you ever get a chance to check it out:)
Graham
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-04-09 05:11
gRAHAM - You can find a pretty good Oehler fingering chart (Grifftabelle fuer Klarinetten mit deutschem System) at:
http://student.physik.uni-dortmund.de/homepages/kiel/Clarinet/griffe.html
ron b.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2000-04-09 12:20
larry wrote:
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Another variant is the "reform boehm" system. This is, as I undestand it, a kind of middle ground hybrid between the french (boehm) and the german (oehler) systems. It offers the advantages of both: french fingering and mouthpiece with german venting and intonation. Since I'm not totally familiar with the reform boehm system, I'd be interested in hearing what others think of it. H. Wurlitzer makes a beautiful looking reform boehm clarinet, in addition to their german systems.
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The H. Würlizer Reform-Boehm is basically a German instrument with a German design and Boehm-system. It has a few very nice improvements that I wish Buffet could take over. I guess It's because of patent regulations that they haven't. He has taken the consequences of the Boehm-principals that one tone-hole should only open for one semi-tone, with two exceptions, low G to A/clarion D to E and low C to D/clarion G to A.
To start from the very bottom it has a vent-hole in the bell that improves the sound of the low E. It has double holes for the low F to G that improves response and intonation for low G/clarion D. The RH 1st finger ring is separate from the other two, to open up a vent-hole on the side to improve B/F#(altissimo D#). Optional is the fork-finger Eb/Bb (seen on Buffet full-Boehm as well). It has a double-action mechanism for throat-Bb/speaker-key that opens/closes with the thumb-ring. You have to be careful not to touch the thumb-ring playing the th.-Bb or it won't speak. It's a nice instrument that combines the German sound quality with the simplicity of the Boehm-system and is very much used in Holland and Belgium.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-04-09 16:06
Alphie,
Thanks for your information, from which I learned a lot. In your last message, you mentioned the "German sound quality." Do German clarinets sound better, and if so, do you know why. Judging from recordings I cannot hear too much difference,
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Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2000-04-09 22:09
Fingering:
The Oehler fingering system is the same as the Albert. There are some extra keys for alternative fingerings but the basic fingering is the same. There is an Albert chart at:
http://gofree.indigo.ie/~jonmca/clarinet2.html
German Sound:
I understand that the German sound is not better, but different from the French (ie Boehm) sound. It is supposed to be clearer, lighter, not as warm and quieter. All of these descriptions are from a clarinetist who played both systems. Some people say that since Brahms, Beethoven etc wrote for German clarinets, they would expect the German sound and this is what we should produce when we play their music. There is much room for debate on this point.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2000-04-09 22:29
To Beejay
As usual it's not a matter of good or bad but simply about taste and tradition. The way I personally hear the German clarinet-sound is that it sounds tighter, more centered and focused than the French.
The French clarinet sound is broader with more overtones. It sounds to my ears more even over the registers, specially up in the altissimo, where the German tends to thin out a bit. I'm not the right person to explain the acoustics around this matter. There are others who can do that much better. From looking at the inside of German mouthpieces they appear to be more conical with a smaller chamber. Most of them also have a longer lay and usually a smaller opening than the French. It goes beyond my competence to draw any conclusions from this though
As usual you just have to listened and judge yourself. Listened to Karl Leister, Sabine Meyer, Alfred Prinz, Dieter Klöcker and you will hear that they all sound different from each other just like Boehm-players do. Listened also to George Pieterson, principal of the Concertgebouw-orchestra and the Netherlands Wind Ensemble (the older setup of people before 1990) who plays a Würlizer Reform-Boehm and you will hear another example.
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