 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-12-06 18:52
Hello,
I've been hired to play the Mozart Quintet, but with piano instead of strings. The only accompaniment version I've been able to find has been transposed to play with b-flat clarinet. Obviously, I'd rather play with strings, but this is not an option. I'd also rather play it on a clarinet, but can do it on b-flat if necessary. Does anyone have a printed reduction for piano in the key of A? Does anyone know where to purchase such a reduction? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-12-06 19:22
Ben,
C.F. Peters publishes a version with piano. It's Peters #EP 19C
Hope this helps!
--Michael Norsworthy
www.michaelnorsworthy.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-08 00:53
Nope, the Peters and Boosey version with Piano is for Bb!!
So is the Cundy-Bettoney also.
Don't know of any version for A Clarinet with Piano Accomp (unless you wanted to play with a recording).
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-08 01:09
Ben, there are some gigs you just have to say a Loud resounding "NO" to. Doing the string pieces with piano, when the strings more important than the clarinet is something that has to go into the catagory of " I have a job and I don't need the money that badly" and let my say I'm the biggest "HO" there is when it comes to gigs.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-12-08 11:14
Likewise, anyone who shows up at an audition to play the Mozart concerto without a full orchestra to accompany should be immediately shown the door.
Post Edited (2005-12-08 11:15)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-12-08 11:24
Hello,
This is not the concerto, it's the quintet, and whether you like what I am doing or not, I'm doing it. I'm playing with a great pianist a great piece of music and being paid very well to do it. I've even played the slow movement of the Mozart Concerto with guitar and bass in concert. This went over very well, might I add. And, I disagree with Tom that the strings are more important than the clarinet in the quintet--you're out of your mind!
Now, my initial question was "is there a version for piano in the key of A?" I've been pointed towards the Peters edition, but it is out of print. If anyone has this version that they would allow me to borrow for this concert, I would be greatly appreciative. Or, if someone wants to sell their copy, I'd be glad to pay for it.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2005-12-08 13:16
Dear Ben
are you going to consider useing a basset clt?
Peter Cigleris
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-12-08 14:09
One real suggestion:
do you think your pianist is good enough to play from the score?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-08 14:25
Is your pianist using a real piano or an electronic piano? If using the latter they can transpose the keyboard down a semitone so you can use your A clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-12-08 14:26)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-08 15:06
I would give my {enter body part here} to play this piece on any instrument regardless of its pitch. Go for it.....and record it.
BTW, do you recall one of the final episodes of MASH? The pompous Bostonian surgeon (Charles Emerson Winchester was it?) had a ragtag group of Korean farmers playing it on homemade instruments....and it still sounded fine.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-08 16:29
I did the rondo for my college audition piece, knowing the head of music didn't care much for music after 1880 (though he preferred renaissance and baroque and wasn't a clarinet enthusiast at all, finding them 'characterless' instruments), so this was within his field - and was accepted on the course.
And just as well as I probably had the best clarinet teacher in the area.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-08 16:57
Sure, the Mozart Concerto 2nd movement is wonderful; and survives "reductions" and "arrangements."
BUT
There is NOTHING as beautiful as the tuttis that separate the clarinet solo's theme-phrases. NOTHING
Even playing alone (on my Bb) with the Dowani accompaniment, its a tear jerker.
Yes, Contragirl, that's crying as in too-beautiful, not too bad!
Bob Phillips
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-08 17:50
The Dowani accomp of the Stamitz 3 has the worst sounding Clarinetist I have ever heard on a real recording.
The sound is so bright that you could light a fire with it. Most good 7th graders have a better tone than it does.
Hear it sometime if you want a good shock. Gives a whole new meaning to the word "bright" 
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-12-08 18:01
Dear David,
Do your homework please. The Peters edition that I listed above is for *A* clarinet. #19B is the Bb version. They publish it both ways. Having worked at a sheet music store for over 4 years, I'm quite sure of this.
Thank you,
Michael Norsworthy
www.michaelnorsworthy.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-08 18:15
Michael - of course there is the A version but it would be with String Quartet, not with Piano Accomp.
Are you sure that the Peters edition has the A part for Piano and not the Bb, because SmartMusic has it listed as Bb Clarinet w/piano in the Peters Edition. So there is at least a Peters edition w/Piano Accomp that has it for the Bb Clarinet.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-12-08 18:23
David,
I'm quite sure. Here's a link. Take a look at the instrumentation...
https://www.edition-peters.com/php/stock_info.php?section=music&pno=EP19C
Under instrumentation/format it lists: CLA/Pf
If you look at edition # 19B here:
https://www.edition-peters.com/php/stock_info.php?section=music&pno=EP19B
it states this version is for Bb. See both edition numbers under additional details and it says respectively:
Additional details: K.581(Bb)
Additional details: K.581(A)
Thanks,
Michael
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-08 18:59
Thanks Mike! What it has in Smartmusic is not the same so that's why I didn't list it. Smartmusic doesn't even have the quintet listed under A Clarinet works! (would have to do their transposition to get it to do that which is easy).
ps - with the 12 legal file cabinets of print music I have, I basically own a music store
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-12-08 19:13
David,
I understand about owning a music store! I basically have the same thing and a huge 7 foot cabinet for oversized things. Working in a sheet music store really paid off with the discount that I got (wholesale) but now the question becomes...where does all of it go?!!!
--Michael
http://www.michaelnorsworthy.com
Post Edited (2005-12-08 19:15)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-08 19:34
I don't have that one (only the Stamitz). I would assume that it has a bright sound to it as it's in the wrong key, but of course haven't heard it so only a guess. Recording wise their quality is much better than MMO I feel, but that one that I have is pretty scary (is with Piano).
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-12-08 21:06
Hello,
Thanks for your help. The Peters version for A clarinet is out of print and not available, at least not anywhere that I've been able to find. I've got the people at Sheet Music Service looking to see if they have the Breitkopf version. Thanks a lot, larryb, for turning me on to this edition. I hope it pans out.
I'll be playing with a real piano, so no transposing. I don't play low clarinets, so no basset clarinet. All I have are string parts, no score. I'm sure my pianist could read the score, if I had one.
I'll let you know how the recording comes out.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-08 22:57
Author: Alseg (---.hvhs.org)
Date: 2005-12-08 15:06
I would give my {enter body part here} to play this piece on any instrument regardless of its pitch. Go for it.....and record it.
BTW, do you recall one of the final episodes of MASH? The pompous Bostonian surgeon (Charles Emerson Winchester was it?) had a ragtag group of Korean farmers playing it on homemade instruments....and it still sounded fine.
Surgeon-Musician-Woodworker
Clarinet Barrels Handcrafted
Dear Surgeon,
I would presume, and it might not be 100% valid, that your income from a well established medical practice would be considerable more than that of most clarinetists on this list. I would also have to say if you didn't make more money being a surgeon than Ricardo makes playing in the orchestra I'd be more than astonished. Me, a retired E-8 from a military band, who gigs playing weddings, Bar Mitzvahs, and the occasional recital and classical concert, have in fact hired a string quartet on 2 occasions and played the Quintet. If you have not, than I don't think you would really give a body part (or at least your own body part) to play the piece. It's a lot of fun to actually pay a group to do great music.
I do remember the last episode of Mash, I got incredible choked up when the Korean musicians played Mozart. Hit hit me because this is one of those pieces, I Tom Puwalski, think falls into a category I would call, Holy Mozart. I get emotional when I hear an immigrant make an attempt to speak English. I always try to learn how to say at least a few phrases in the language of any country I'm in. I do damn good in Canada!! I don't think that my opinion on this is "stuck up," "artsy" or "pompous". I spent 20 years in an Army Band, I played some stuff that was most definitely not what I would call the most "artistically pure". But we took certain types of music to places and people who would have never heard live music if it hadn't been for us, and, I was just following orders. Now I'm not!
Now a days, I spend a lot of my time playing Jewish music, and being around Jewish musicians, I find it's a study in drawing lines. One of my musicians has timers on his lights to turn them on and off on Shabot, but believes that a machine that answers his phone isn't quite Kosher. He has a good reason for that, to me it doesn't make sense. Artistically I think that's what a bulletin board is about, where is that line, and what is the opinion on whether I've crossed it or not. Playing the Quintet with Piano crosses that line, teaching it to musicians of another musical tradition wouldn't. But that's just my opinion.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: Carmen
Date: 2005-12-08 23:35
Recently published is something called the Grand Sonate, by barentreiter. Our store just got this and carries it. I first saw it and was questionable, but i think it would be nice.
***...so do all who seen such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you can do is decide what to do with the time that is given to you.***
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-12-08 23:41
Hello,
Unless I'm mistaken, I believe this "Grand Sonata" is the quintet with a piano reduction, but in the key of b-flat.
I've got a call into Barenreiter to see if an A version is available.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-09 01:05
Tom P:
The expression "I would give my (usually left gonad or similar structure) to do....whatever (often expressed in terms of spending an amorous evening with a lovely lady) " is a common idiomatic hyperpole meant to dramatize just how wonderful such an activity would be.
It is NOT meant to be taken literally.
I was indicating that I considered it a mitzvah to be able to play the piece in whatever form was available.
The reference to MASH indicates that I thought it sounded good even when done by instruments for which it was not written.
I am NOT sure what my income has to do with the reference to MASH.
The character of that particular surgeon was meant to be an exaggeration of snobbery....like Margaret Dumont in a Groucho movie....it was his personality that was used as counterpoint to the
hominess of Hawkeye and the others.
Before hurling brickbats, consider that I pay $45,000 malpractice insurance each year, I must be recertified every decade (an exam akin to an audition for a major orch,) and lastly, consider that my practice includes pro bono surgery for which I still am held liable, that I take care of a largely indigent rust belt aged population for which my reimbursement declined 10% per year for each of the last 3 years ....while the volume of work remained the same, and the governmentally mandated paperwork increased by 25%.
And still, I fill the tzdakah pot.
And by the way....in order to make ends meet during premedical school, I played my share of scherz. I can krech with the best of em.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2005-12-09 01:18)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-09 02:41
Dr. Segel,
Where did you do Med school and who were you gigging with back in the day? Hell if you ain't married, a surgeon, clarinetist who knows the schtick, and has his own woodshop would be quite the the catch in Baltimore!!!! I could fix you up good!!!
How much are you playing are you getting to do these days. \
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performanceutine, split tubes, made blanks
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-09 03:17
Tom......I sent you an email.
We can schmooz offline........no sense boring the musicians with our prattle.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-09 16:20
Another great revalation on our BB!
The idea of buying cohorts to perform a piece of music had just never occurred to me.
I've been trying to schmooz-up locals to join me in ensemble work. I managed to get a violist and pianist together to play and perform the Mozart Trio. Then, I blew a repeat in public, and the group evaporated. SIGH.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-09 20:07
By the way, to Tom, we've tried to avoid comparing people's bank accounts and incomes on this board. Here, we're all considered equal. That's something a semi-pro like me can enjoy when we're in discussion with Ben Redwine and some of the other pro players around here. Allan Segal, by the way, is a hero in my mind. If someone in your family needs his kind of surgery to save his/her life--what would you give for it? And, by the way, we have surgeons in our family and they have tremendous expenses BEYOND malpractice insurance each year. Paperwork and employees for Medicare and Medicade, regular insurance and HMO nightmares, equipment that is so expensive I can't hardly breathe when I hear about it--laser surgery equipment, computers, etc.
I don't mean to enter into an argument--just want to clear the air about equality and everyone being welcome regardless of "day jobs" on this board. I respect a brilliant mind and a sharp wit, but respect for one another is also a good thing.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-12-09 20:16
Hello,
Thanks for the encouragement, clarinetgrammy, I'm looking forward to this gig, whether Tom wants to hear it or not.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-09 20:44
Ben...Please post the mp3 or wav.
Brenda....Thanks
Tom. ...I respect your musicianship nonetheless.
One thing....maybe I am guilty of ONE small hyperbole.
While the 5tet does sound great no matter what.....perhaps I would consider NOT hearing it on accordion.
(sounds of crashing tomatoes....he ducks for cover....splat)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-10 00:04
Ben you're a big boy and can can perform the quintet anyway you choose. This is still america and unless you're in violation of the newly extended patriot act you should worry about a thing.
I thought Giora Fiedman's performance of the adaggio of K622 at clarfest in salt lake, where he did it with classical guitar, bass, and maybe the bandoneon, was awsome. I have a recording Paquitto Rivera's playing the K622 adagio with the cuban group Irakaria, where he plays it on soprano with a very hip jazz groove, kicks butt! So maybe doing it with piano may make all of us forget about working with strings, hell that bunch are all prima donnas anyway!
I guess I made the fau pax, to mention income on this board. I often hesitate to bring the subject. But face it America is about the money, the bling the clams. But in other cultures, not the one in this one, clarinetists would be payed to play music the way it's intended to be played. Let's face it $500 isn't alot of money to play a recital when you have to split it with a pianist.
Let's talk about opinions for a second. someone previously said that all opinions are equal on this list. I think all opinions have the right to have access to the forum, but admit it everyone, if a certain player says something, that has more weight than when others say it. If this were a martial arts forum, and say someone with a green belt in Karate asked a question, and someone else with a green belt answered that question, perhaps with less than acurate info. People would have a clue as to a person's skill leval or ability. If a 3rd degree black belt conterdicted this opinion one would assume that this person was further along the path than either of the green belts. Maybe we need skill leval tests for clarinet playing. Colored belts would be totally hip, Scarlet, purple, Muave. That's it I want to be a 3rd degree Mauve belt clarinetist.
As far as the remark that someone made about hearing the mozart played on accordion. I was sitting in a hotel lobby in Vienna a few years back, I was on tour doing some klezmer concerts, when the Accordianist found out I was a musician and a Clarinetist, he started playing K622 from memory, more musicially than I've hear 3/4 of the clarinetists I've heard perform it. It's the player!! He was amazing, than he started playing french 1920's hot paris jazz, than he knew a bunch of klezmer tunes that I did and we played together for at least an hour. I had the time of my life. I admit it I was traumatized by a travaling accordion teacher when I was in third grade. But in the hands of a great musician it is the most expressive of keyboard instruments.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-12-10 03:06
kia ora Ben
i'm not going to be home for a couple of days, but if you still need the piano part for the quintet (in A) i could courier it to you.... you'd get it in about a week to 10 days from now.... probably too late, but let me know. I'm not sure what edition i have, but i'm pretty sure that for both the Brahms and Mozart quintets i've got the piano part in A
i'd love to see the piano part from the "Grand Sonate" (the first transcription i believe) as apparently there are differences from the modern transcriptions- it could be an interesting project to perform it on period instrument (ie standard "non basset" instrument of the time)
donald
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-12-10 12:04
Hello Donald,
Thanks for the offer. I did order the Grand Sonata from Barenreiter. I'll see how it is when I get it and let you know. Actually, with all this back and forth, I just talked to my pianist and he said that he has been practicing the b-flat part and likes it, so I guess I'll do it on b-flat clarinet. It's really his gig! It should be great nonetheless.
If I can figure out this technology stuff, I'll try to post an MP3 of the concert. The pianist usually puts one movement of each piece that we play on his website after the concert. But, we're also playing the Mozart piano and wind quintet, so there may be some issues with performers not wanting their performance put on the web without compensation. However, the pianist thinks like I do, so I'm sure we can put the "Grand Sonata" on the web.
P.S. Is anyone going to the MidWest convention next week? If so, I would love to meet you. I'll be at the Woodwind/Brasswind booth.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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