 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-12-09 23:33
Hello
Alright. So I'm getting ready to enter college. One university has JUST a Bachelor of Science degree with an emphasis in Music Education. This school has a GREAT clarinet teacher (graduate of the University of North Texas) and an okay music program. They've offered me a full ride plus some (just my music audition, am waiting for acadmeic scholarship stuff).
The other school has a GREAT clarinet teacher, the B.M.E. degree program, and a good music department (more established than the other). However they don't have a lot of money to offer me (less than a full ride).
So my question, what does the Bachelor of Science with an emphasis in Music Education degree mean?? How does it differ from the B.M.E.?? In your opinion, which one sounds better (I know it's ultimitely up to me to decide, I just want your input)??
Clayton
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Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-10 00:00
No one is going to know the difference. When you interview the Administrator is only going to see if you're certified or not. Any education program aids you in obtaining your first certificate, so as long as they're doing that you're ok. Either way you're getting an education degree. The only difference to you may be how the departments within the University are assorted. Take the money (assuming you like the Clarinet teacher and think the band director has a brain.) If the school fits those parameters then you're ok. If you don't like your studio teacher and/or the band director having a full scholarship isn't going to mean a thing to you. Trust me.
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Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-10 01:28
I think I remember Alabama offering a B.S. in Education. Who knows why they're all different. Mine's a Bachelor of Music Education. The B.A. in music where I went to school was the "light" music degree, but that doesn't diminish someone who has a B.A. in Mus. Ed. from a different institution.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-12-10 02:23
Bass9396,
You are giving some mis-information here. A few points:
1. In any university I have graduated from (Ohio U., Kent State, and Bowling Green State University) and taught in (Bowling Green, Embry Riddle, Southern Illinois, and University of Nebrasaka) colleges are the degree granting units. Departments are units in each college. Sometimes, schools can also grant a degree but this is a little more unusual.
2. A degree may have academic requirements of the university, the college, as well as the department. And the name of the degree can be based on those requirements.
3. The state certifies graduates to teach and each state has specific requirements for certificates.
4. Concerning your statement "No one is going to know the difference. When you interview the Administrator is only going to see if you're certified or not." I beg your pardon but I do not happen to agree with what you are saying. Perhaps you might want to contact me by email and give me some background on why you made this statement.
HRL
PS My first university degree was a Bachelor of Science in Education with a major in Instrumental Music Education. I was certified by the State of Ohio to teach music in grades K-12.
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Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-10 14:14
Do you realize how large the shortage on teachers is in general? There are many people teaching (somehow or another) without a certificate. If the school system gets caught they are at great risk of sanction. So, administrators care about the certificate first.
You can feel free to pick apart every word of what I said, but in general terms I'm correct. Stop being so uptight.
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2005-12-10 15:50
If you are not sure you really will make a full career in music, consider going to the best overall university you can get into and afford. Over the years, my business (not at all related to music) has employed dozens of new college grads, many of whom changed majors radically at the age of 19 or 20 after a year or two of college (amazing how many of them loved that introductory psychology or sociology course). Or at many times, if they had gone to really excellent universities with a strong reputation for broad and quality undergraduate education and came out with a high GPA, we were willing to hire them for their "brains" and "education" rather than their majors because we do a lot of on-the-job training. Of course, this advice is completely moot if you are SURE at 17 or 18 that you can make an acceptable living in music for your entire life. If you are not, the safest thing to do is to get the best overall undergraduate liberal arts education you can in combination with an acceptable music education (which you may or may not choose to pursue for all four years of college or thereafter).
I have a PhD in a field unrelated to music and found throughout my career of 33 years since college, that the quality of the schools I attended and did well at was what opened doors for me. And, I totally changed my mind about what I wanted to be when I grew up at the age of 17 after 8 weeks in college. Things that look clear in high school may not look so clear in the college dorm. I also changed my mind about what I wanted to do with my PhD degree at the age of 38, 12 years out of graduate school and after having a well-established career path, and again the quality of my education at various times in my life was an important thing to fall back upon as I made changes and adapted to the possibilities at that time in my life.
Unless you are really really really sure what the next 50 years of your working life will be like, keep your options open.
George
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-10 16:09
My daughter-in-law has resided in several states and is of the opinion that state teaching certification is a costly, income producing government revenue source. After having a teaching certificate, it seems that getting another is mostly a matter of paying fees.
I've been fortunate enough to play with folks who have both performance and teaching degrees in music. I can't tell the difference in competence. The folks with masters in performance talk better --claiming to be able to play (e.g.) romantic and classical period pieces (ne' "songs") with appropriate phrasing.
Seems to me that it would take a whole lot of education to mask one's intrinsic talent.
BTW: Why does Ohio grant Bachelor of SCIENCE degrees in music? I would expect to find Bachelor's degrees from the music departments to be labeled ARTS.
I imagine that the cirriculum differs between the teaching and performance programs.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-12-10 16:45
Bob,
At the time I was at Ohio U. as a student, one could get a Bachelor's of Music from the College of Fine Arts or the BSEd. from the College of Education. My BSEd had courses in science, a complete music curriculum, history and governemnt, all the education and methods courses, plus a whole lot of other cool courses which have really served me well. We all played in the same performance groups and took lessons/clasees from the same professors.
HRL
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-12-10 16:47
Thanks to all who have responded. So, the way I take it is that both degrees allow one to teach, but both emphasize different aspects of the degree. The B.M.E. degree probably is more performance based, while the B.S. is more education oriented. Is that correct?? If not, please elaborate!! Thanks!!!
Clayton
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-12-10 17:34
Clayton,
You really need to do a course by course comparison to know exactly how the two degrees compare. Degree names can be very misleading and should probably not serve as your sole measure of exactly what kind of educational curriculum is represented.
HRL
Post Edited (2005-12-10 18:17)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-12-10 17:42
Bass9396,
I believe you have confused my pursuit of accuracy with being uptight. Having had 40+ years of public school and university teaching experience, IMHO you are in general terms, incorrect.
HRL
PS I am well aware of the teacher shortage and certificate issues.
Post Edited (2005-12-10 22:16)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-12-10 17:59
It's also different per university. For performance majors, I've heard that many places consider a B.A. more prestigious than a B.M., but at my university the B.M. is the intensive degree while the B.A. is what you downgrade to if you just want to graduate without a specialty.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-10 19:03
Our transient flutist took a bachelor in performance (U Idaho) and then stuck around to complete the course requirements for her teaching credential. She's just finishing up her student teaching and will graduate this month.
She has done an awesome job working with our great high school band teacher and in putting up the first semester of the school's new course in Advanced Placement Music Theory.
Bob Phillips
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-12-10 19:23
bass9396 wrote:
> So, administrators care about the certificate first
Not always.
With community and Board of Education pressure, administrators often care first about finding a warm body to fill a teaching vacancy.
Candidates are frequently hired with the promise of them completing the necessary course requirements for the appropriate certification.
Over time, these promises are often (sometimes intentionally) forgotten about. Thus, the number of uncertified and/or unlicensed educators.
This phenomenon happens much more in inner city districts than the affluent suburbs - but it continues to take place, year after year.
A problem? Absolutely ...GBK
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-12-10 19:25
If you're asking the question with regards to future public school teaching, the actual degree may make a difference in your certification options. This is for Massachusetts, although I have no knowledge about other states' requirements. Initial certification and recertification have tightened up significantly in recent years, and in order to be considered "highly qualified", which you must be in order to re-certify, you must have a Master's degree in the specific area in which you teach. You might want to check with your state's Department of Education website to see what their certification guidelines are. It might help you decide. Hope that is of some help.
Sue Tansey
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Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-10 22:56
No wonder there's a teacher shortage. In the district I teach in you used to have to get your Master's by the end of your 7th year or you were fired. They've since figured out that that doesn't breed confidence, morale, or financial security(since they weren't paying for it). I agree, check with the Dept. Of Ed. Guidelines of any place you may want to teach to be certain you are not sitting in school forever just so you get an underpaid job.
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Author: clarispark
Date: 2005-12-12 01:57
I don't know the difference--I am lucky enough to be in the BME program at Central Michigan University. I do know that the School of Music here has degree maps around here someplace offering a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science with some relation to music.
I might have to check into that. Thought I could be of more help, sorry.
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