 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-12-08 19:41
I want to start making my own reeds at least by summer this year (in America) so I can get somewhat good at it before going to college. Christmas is coming up, and I would bet that making reeds requires some equipment that would make very good Christmas gift ideas to give people for me.
First of all, are there any good web sites which offer beginning information on the process of making reeds? I haven't found any with Google yet, but I'll keep looking.......
Second of all, what are the best books (out of the many written) on the topic?
Third, what is the minimal equipment I will need to make decent reeds for myself and what kind of prices are we talking about?
Thank you so much for any help and I hope I haven't recovered any territory here on the BBoard. I did do a search first, I promise!
-Tyler
Post Edited (2005-12-08 19:56)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-12-08 21:05
For clarinet? Not many people do. It depends on how much of the making you want to do yourself. Whether you want to split and gouge tube cane, or just buy blanks to, erm, whittle down.
Really, though, I would start out by learning to modify reeds first, then see if making them from scratch is worth your while.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-12-08 21:40
Tyler
I'm with Alex on this one. I don't know many people who make their own clarinet reeds (none in fact. They all have more important things to do). Its easier (and less time consuming) to adjust them (purty-near same results with a ton less effort and time). I own Tom Ridenour's ATG System and it works pretty well (I still have a lot to learn though!!!). You might want to check that out. Good Luck!!!
Clayton
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-12-08 23:10
I have read many other posts saying the exact opposite of most of what's written in these replies. It's not THAT time-consuming, many symphony players do it, and I own the ATG reed-finishing system and although I am not extremely proficient at it yet, I believe the fun and exciting adventure of learning to make reeds would give me great insight into the intricacies of adjusting them as well. It would also save $ down the road.
I would still like to know minimal equipment and its expense, as well as the top books on the subject please, if anyone could actually help me out...?
I would plan to buy reed blanks, if that helps anyone understand my aspirations.
-Tyler
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-08 23:31
Hi there, I'd second the ATG reed system. It's simple, it works, it's the hardest part of makin reeds. I've done the routine split tubes, made blanks,finished them. Both with a REdual, and with Reed machine by Dilutus. The best I managed to was end up with reeds that was as bad as a box of vandorens. Since I started using the ATG, My homemade reeds now play as great as the vandorens I use, but take a consideral amount more work, for a bennifit I nor my teacher can really hear.
I was lucky while in the army to play in a really great wind quintet. The oboe player and the bassoonist never ever had reed problems, both said the key was to learn how to do the final adjustment.
One day, in a holiday inn, I went through reed meltdown, I was doing a solo that night we're at 5200ft above sea leval and nothing I had worked. Both of us were doing important stuff at the show that night and his reeds worked. He asked if I had an un messed with box of reeds, I did , he soaked them, stuck them to the big window looked at them and said. "These look way more consistant than anything I get off my profiler" But I can tell they aren't balanced. So he took one and balanced it for my, without playing it. When I tried it It played great. He then smashed it and said that I should do it. My played, not as well as the one he did though. The ATG thing, actually teaches you how to make the reed you play on really work. I've studied with some really great teachers, non have been able to equal Ridenour's info in his ATG REED kit.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performanceutine, split tubes, made blanks
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-12-08 23:54
Tyler
Have you checked out David Pino's book, or Keith Stein's "The Art Of Clarinet Playing"?? I conducted a search of the BBoard, and several past threads mentioned those books. Hopefully someone with more experience (i.e. someone who actually OWNS these books) will chime in too. Hope this Helped!!!
Clayton
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-12-09 01:13
Thank you, I will look into those books and I will definitely try finishing my homemade reeds with the ATG system (I already use it for my V12's--I could use a little more practice, but it works great).
I understand to make a good reed out of a blank, one needs a profiling machine such as the ReeDual....? (how much $????????), a reed knife (I know where to get one), and sandpaper, and what else???
Thank you all for your input.
-Tyler
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Author: clarinetfreak
Date: 2005-12-09 01:24
Suggestions for tools:
Reed Profiler, Planer, and reed copying machine can be bought from Robert Dilutis. http://www.frontiernet.net/~reedmach/
Reedual can be cound at - Rabco/G. Crossman
238 Corsair Ave
Lauderdale-by-the-sea
FL 33308 USA
Accessories
I suggest you find someone who can show you how to use the tools rather than trying to figure it out from a book. I personally spent time with Daniel Gilbert, 2nd clarinetist of the Cleveland Orchestra, for reedmaking tips. I got more from him (in an hour span of time) than I did looking through many books on reed making.
Good Times!
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-12-09 01:50
Is a planer necessary for making reeds out of bought blanks?
-Tyler
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-09 02:25
I will make this additional recomondation about making your own reeds. I always got better results when the blank was the same kind of cane as the master reed. For your first attempts get a few of the gonzolez reeds and find a few that you like, then if you get a reed copier either one, I recomend the dilutus over the redual, use the gonzolez as the master and one of the gonzolez blanks as the copied reed. First attempt just see how close you get to the master.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performanceutine, split tubes, made blanks
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-12-09 18:07
Thanks. So will I need a planer if I will be starting with blanks?? Someone with experience has just offered to show me what he knows about reedmaking, so hopefully with that instruction plus some supplemental instruction from Pino's and/or Stein's book, I'll be good to go. Just need some $ now...
-Tyler
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-10 00:06
You only need the planner if you're starting with tubes! blanks just need some sandpaper and glass.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-12-10 00:41
If you do go for making your own reeds, find an experienced person (oboist, perhaps?) to show you how to properly hold the knife. Cut myself once, not fun.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-12-10 03:12
Tom Ps advice about matching the reed blank to the master is spot on- you'll get only limited success unless you pay attention to this one.
i found that it's not hard making a "playable reed" without lessons, but the steps between a playable reed and a "concert reed" are much more easily learned with a teacher who can watch you and give you advice.
i can make 5 playable reeds in 30min (using a Reedual), in that time i'd earn enough for half a box of reeds if i was teaching
good luck
donald
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-10 03:34
given even more thought to this. more advice would be to an order of study that would be as follows
A. really master balancing comercial reeds with a 80% sucess rate, not just one brand but 3-4 differant ones. this will give you the skill to handle different batches of cane. also when you get different brands to work, they all sound a little differant, like wine!
2. find a brand of reed that also sells a blank, Davie cane has them so does alexander. or get some V12 5+s they're blank like work on those with a dilutus
3. then if step 2 is highly successful and only then, move to the tubes and sliting, planing and shaping.
I think this will give you the most usuable reeds the fastest, but I've done it. I use every reed in a box of V12s I've gotten really good with my ATG! with that Most reeds in a box I'd use in concert and 2-3 just for practicing. but those are much better than alot of what people will use for an audition.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2005-12-10 04:10
I've made my own reeds for over 20 years, and started doing so out of professional necessity as a principal player in a US orchestra. I say out of necessity, because the hunt for a suitable Vandoren in the days before Gonzales was an expensive and often fruitless experience.
I started with a ReeeDuAl and blanks from various sources. A friend brought me Prestini blanks from France, which were the nicest blanks I ever got. Later in the process, I started making blanks from tubes, and wish I had done it much earlier. If you make the blanks, you have much more control over the shape, even if it takes more time. About 5 yerars ago I got a DeLutis Reed Machine and the associated planer and shaping tools. I use this today for reed making. I make reeds on Gonzales cane using a Vandoren V12 model. Love the Gonzales cane, the cut not as much.
Between the ReeDuAl and the DeLutis Machine, I prefer the DeLutis. It takes longer to make a reed because it is hand powered, but the reeds are more consistent because DeLutis uses a metal blade and the ReeDuAl uses sandpaper which must be frequently changed, which leads to variations in the product even using the same model reed. I could do 8 reeds in about 45 minutes on the ReeDuAl - the same 8 reeds take 90-100 minutes on the DeLutis. The Delutis Machine "eats" model reeds faster than the ReeDuAl, though DeLutis has come up with a solution for this. Both DeLutis and George Crossman are easy to deal with for purchase and repairs/adjustments.
If I were starting out, I'd make a few batches of reeds from blanks just to get accustomed to the machine of your choice. Then I'd start making my own blanks - more control of the finished product. If I had the time, I'd make them by hand with only sandpaper. I took me about 90 minutes to convert a tube into 8 blanks with only snadpaper. With DeLutis's tools it takes about 45 minutes, and if you're careful, the results will be almost as good. I've seen and played with the Speed Reed tools, and they seem to work well too.
As to books, I suggest Ronald Vazquez "A Book for the Clarinet Reed-Maker"
http://www.clarinetreedmaker.com/ , Larry Guy's "Selection, Care and Adjustment of Single Reeds", and "The ReedMate Guide to Reeds", all of which have good information. Walter Grabner's Reed Making book is good as well, and Ben Armato has an informative book on reeds, cane, etc.
I use the ATG system to finish reeds. Even after 30 years of fixing reeds and 20+ of making them, I wish I'd had the ATG sooner - makes life a lot easier.
For me, the reson to do this is that the handmade reeds last longer, and unlike Tom P, mine play noticably better than any commercial reed I've found. Another downside is that hand made reeds take longer to break in. But in the end, they last longer, so it's not a big deal once you discover the break-in process that works for you. Larry Guy's book has excellent suggestions for this.
BTW, none of these people pay me to endorse their products, cane, or books - just what I've found useful after a lot of searching.
David
David
niethamer@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dbnclar1/index.html
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-10 12:48
I think it's very interesting that Dave, myself and other people have found that ATG reed system so usuable. one of the things that is the most important thing about dealing with reeds is to know what a really good one sounds, feels and tastes like. That ATG system will get you really close with comericial reeds. Info like that DVD is hard to come by, I know because it took many years for me to find something that worked this good.
I remember when i was 16 and studying with Iggy Gennusa, when it came time to talk about reeds, he handed me a piece of paper with a reed drawn on it, this picture had what looked like contour lines on it equaly space with notes of the chromatic scale written on it. In his mind, if your low B sounded funky, you rub that spot with rush and you could fix that particular note. I loved this man, only a few people have I ever heard play a clarinet in that league. But his reed ideas, were folly. He went through boxes to find one or two that would play the way he wanted. I used to do that also. When I was in the Army Field Band, when my reeds sucked, I walked down to supply and picked up another 10 boxes and went at it. This was well and good till the year after I retired and had run out of my Army Stock and found out they cost almost 20 bucks a box.
Nailing down your reeds and being able to know that you will have a good reed for juries, lessons and rehearsal will put you so far ahead of any other reed players in college it will astound you. In this day and age where people will spend $600 bucks for a Kaspar on ebay, or $500 on one that someone went CSI on and duplicated the rubber. That $60 Ridenour thing fits my defintion of beauty-It's a simple soulution to a complex problem. But let's face it most of us, myself included, if confronted with the choice of knowledge and some new gadget that will make us " run faster and jump higher", I know Dave is old enough to remember PF flyers, we'll pick the gadget!
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-12-10 12:58
Dave, I'm coming down to Richmond and doing an Jewish independance day concert can't remember the date, but we should do lunch. You can make me a reed and we'll see if it can last one of those killer hora sets. I'm trying to find a way to cover mine in kevlar or something. Later Tom
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-12-10 19:12
Thank you very much for all of your information! I sense a great deal of experience in the replies I've gotten in the past day or so.
Now, let's keep this snowball rolling some more by asking another question:
what do you all think of the advice given in this table?:
http://www.jewelmusic.com/interesting%20articles/reedadjusting.htm
-Tyler
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2005-12-11 04:06
I think that the experience gained in making at least some reeds is very helpful in a lifetime of clarinet playing. Even if you decide not to make your own reeds, you have learned a lot about what makes a reed work - and even better - what makes it not WORK.
You can make your own reeds using some very simple tools. All you really need is a good reed knife, a flat glass plate, some files and sand paper, a ruler in millimeters, and a reed clipper. A micrometer or Vernier caliper is useful when you want to get more precise.
Davie reed company sells reed blanks (www.daviereed.com) and they are pretty good.
There are several texts out the (including mine). What the heck, take a chance. You will certainly learn something.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
Holiday pricing on Buffet clarinets and bass clarinets
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-12-11 17:01
Thanks for the encouragement, Mr. Grabner. After sitting down and learning a little bit from a local symphony player who used to make reeds, if I decide that I want to continue into college, I will get some good reed-making tools for a graduation present at the end of this year. However, I did not know it was possible to make decent reeds with just those basic tools. It probably requires a good eye........maybe I'll try a couple that way, though.
-Tyler
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Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-11 18:02
I would say you've chosen a good path. I've "attempted" to make a reed.....I don't even know if attempt is a good word. But, I did learn a lot of what goes into it and learned to respect the reed a little more.
I've seen lots of posts regarding people who would only get 2-5 good reeds out of a box. I'm determined to make all my reeds work and I've discovered that when I label the reed honestly (stuffy, hard, fuzzy, no altissimo, etc.) and I leave it alone for a while, because of the marking, when I come back to it the reed plays much better and needs little or no adjustment. Definitely patience is the proper virtue here.
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