 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Soulhunter
Date: 2005-11-27 11:18
Hello,
Has anyone listened to the new record of the Southern California Band "The Feisty Piranhas"? I believe that's the first time a clarinet is being used in Rock Music?!
Have a good day and fun playing!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2005-11-27 14:48
You mean in a public (or official) performance? I've seen the odd clarinet in local fun rock bands, but I guess it just doesn't deliver the "thrust" that seems to be needed, and it's not so fancy as a lead singer occasionally choking his saxophone...
--
Ben
(trying to play the sax solo on "Will you?" on clarinet. Failing so far)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-11-27 15:32
"the new record"
"I believe that's the first time a clarinet is being used in Rock Music?!"
By new I assume you mean it is a CD that came out lately? If it is, then definitely not the first time. I know King Crimson used both clarinet and bass clarinet in the 70s, and the Beatles (if you call that rock) used clarinet even before that.
Post Edited (2005-11-27 15:35)
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Author: Bnewbs
Date: 2005-11-27 21:37
Radiohead used a clarinet in Life in a Glass House on Amnesiac, they don't use one regularly and not everyone would call Radiohead rock. Its a good song and one of my favorite bands though.
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Author: Soulhunter
Date: 2005-11-27 21:42
Dear tictactux,
I mean as a solid member of the band on official recordings. The sound has more something of a rock guitar than a conventional tone. That tone has more "power" if you will than the common "dead" tone. It has pretty good thrust on their recordings - I couldn't hear a saxophone instead of the clarinet in this special case, just the way it's used there. The Sax, as cool as it is, doesn't give some of the "haunting" effects due to the nature of it's tone. Try to get to listen to it and let me know.
Keep playing.
Post Edited (2005-11-27 22:12)
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Author: Soulhunter
Date: 2005-11-27 22:04
Dear clarnibass
Yes they just came out on CD - the Beatles are hardly Rock in our "modern" times, they also didn't use that instrument as a solid part of their songs - Super Tramp - also had a clarinet player who played sax as well (or vise versa) But they aslo are truly pop music. King Crimson I'd consider rock - but same here the instrument is used as a "gimmick" not as a real part of the band.
It's the same as the bassoon on The New Vaudeville Band's "Windchester Cathedral" just in this case the bassoon makes the song.
if you have the chance to get a hold of one of their songs, check it out and let me know if you agree.
Post Edited (2005-11-27 22:13)
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Author: Soulhunter
Date: 2005-11-27 22:17
Dear bnewbs
I'd say radio head can be considered rock.
I'll definitely try to find the song of radiohead and listen to it!
I say rock-clarinet since it's sound on that new release is not a conventional sound as anyone else would have used.
Best and keep playing.
Post Edited (2005-11-27 22:18)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-27 22:23
I'd put radiohead in the same sack as coldplay, travis, snow patrol, doves, elbow, athlete, etc. and all the other student bedsit dirge merchants and bin them. It's time they all cheered up.
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-11-28 02:44
Random observations:
Don Byron does some genre bending stuff on clarinet.
The Beatles: Of course they were a rock band. But, it's true: the clarinet and bass clarinet on, for instance, When I'm 64, is not "rock clarinet" in the sense that it would have been to have a clarinet on, say, Helter Skelter or Back in the USSR.
If you listen to the squeaking and squawking that John Coltrane and others have done on sax, or to some of the bass clarinet work of Eric Dolphy, it is not altogether unlike what Hendrix did with distortion and a Strat.
For my personal tastes (and I'm no longer into rock that much, so maybe this part doesn't count) squeaking and squawking is not the best way to showcase the clarinet. However, one could do rock clarinet without squeaks and squawks.
There is no reason that clarinet and lead guitar could not trade riffs, or work together in unison, or harmony, or counterpoint.
I could imagine a remake of the Yes song, Roundabout, with clarinet.
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-11-28 02:56
My general observation is:
The timbral range of the clarinet is immense. However, the timbral range of the clarinet used in classical music is very limited. I bet that less than 25% of the timbral range available to a musician is used in any classical performance. Clearly, contemporary works have greatly expanded this range, and we should be happy about that.
What one defines as squeaks or whatever, is really a part of the clarinet timbre. The most inventive musicians can find the perfect context in which to add sounds such as these in a beautiful and musical way.
Let us not be close minded about the very large range of sounds our great instrument can produce.
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Author: Bnewbs
Date: 2005-11-28 03:01
Chris P,
I know its all opinion, but for me Radiohead has Sooo much more talent than coldplay, Travis, ect. They are also much more experimental and interesting in terms of the range of styles and sounds in their music. I also like the Christopher O'Riley transcriptions (I am actually listening to them now) not to say I don't listen to Coldplay, but for me anyway they are on another plain of music. Yes they can be depressing, but nobedy else in the 90's did anything more originall than radiohead. alteast for my money.
[ let's get back a little closer to the clarinet track now, shall we? Mark C. ]
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-11-28 03:07
I once went through the entire Beatles recording and production notes looking for clarinet use.
Thus, here is the entire listing of The Beatles' use of clarinets from their catalog of recordings. A few interesting and surprising facts:
The Beatles used clarinets on 6 different recordings:
1. When I'm Sixty Four - 2 clarinets/1 bass clarinet: Robert Burns, Harry MacKenzie and Frank Reidy
2. Honey Pie - 2 clarinetists: Raymond Newman and David Smith
3. I Am The Walrus - 1 clarinetist: Gordon Lewin
4. Good Night - 1 clarinetist: name not archived
5. Here Comes The Sun - 1 clarinetist: name not archived
6. A Day In The Life - 2 clarinetists: Basil Tschaikov and Jack Brymer
So the next time you are on a quiz show and the category is "Beatles' Use of Clarinets", you now have everything you need to know ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-11-28 03:46
Able Tasmans uses "rock clarinet." Mostly, you'll hear clarinet doubling on the fist 5 (Frank Zappa) Mothers of Invention albums. Come to think of it Frank orchestrated extensively for the clarinet. Bunk Gardner ("Grand Wazoo" album) and Ian Underwood ("Hot Rats" album) are prime contributors. He also incorporated clarinet synclavier samples on his later works in the 80s, "Jazz From Hell" and "Man From Utopia."
Other Rock groups, notably 70s British Invasion, progressive bands tinkered with the clarinet to some degree, i.e., Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Supertramp as well as, King Crimson and some artsy Captain Beefheart. Also if anyone is familiar with "Arthur Brown", he also seasoned his rock music with clarinet. v/r Ken
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-11-28 03:48
Chris I can't believe you think Radiohead are the same as all those other names you mentioned.... but back to the thread.
"So the next time you are on a quiz show and the category is "Beatles' Use of Clarinets", you now have everything you need to know"
Hahahaha!!! ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-11-28 05:17
Rock is such a wide genre the use of clarinet is totally imaginable (and has been done, as mentioned above), as are other "classical" instruments, such as oboe, English horn, and French horn. The Beatles used an English horn on something or other, I recall.
OTOH, I just got back from a blues/funk/jazz jam in a bar that was supposed to be horn-friendly. With a full drum kit, a totally amped-up electric bass, and a guitar that sounded like like Jimi Hendrix was playing it, all in a small room, the only horns that fit stylistically were the trumpets and flute. The flute sound goes well with a heavy electric sound and the trumpets blast over everything. Even the tenor sax and trombone didn't sound right in terms of style. I decided not to do my tenor imitation on my C-melody and tried playing clarinet. After a short while of trying that, I decided to leave early.
On one of those "history of rock and roll" documentaries, there was a clip of very early Buddy Holly where he had a clarinet, not sax player. Even with the lighter sound of rock and roll guitar in those days, and the fact that the bass was acoustic, you could still tell that the clarinet didn't belong. He was playing as high as possible and blowing his brains out but it just didn't fit.
Steve Epstein
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-11-28 05:52
Friends,
Perhaps some music is yet to be written that incorporates clarinet appropriately into "rock" music. I think the songs mentioned above really give the clarinet a cameo appearance. I would like to hear "rock" music or whatever, with a clarinet as the leading voice. I think Chris Speed's album have certain tunes that lean in this direction.
Obviously, the clarinet is a significant voice in many popular musics of the world.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2005-11-28 06:01
For some real rock bass clarinet, check out
www.magnesiumsf.com
It's a progressive rock trio with drums, guitar and bass clarinet. They have mp3's on the website and they're great (IMO).
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Author: Soulhunter
Date: 2005-11-28 06:54
Wow ! thank you all for putting your brains to work on that!
There are two people so far who seem to have understood what I meant by rock-clarinet it's not a song by a band that is written in a way to suit clarinet. A lot of times with a whole brass section, which simply includes the clarinet or even a touch of classical composition to the song - then it's not a rock song anymore (like radiohead, beatles etc) - or sqeeky, high tones which are in most cases not pleasing anyway and don't have to do anything with rock, blues, pop classic in best cases free jazz and those "songs" seem somewhat questionable to me personally. It's more a leading role and exactly a "talk" between guitar and vocals, like RodRubber mentions above. Rock music does feature distorted guitars - now the eighties put those into pop music as well, so yes it is quite difficult to distinguish where does rock start where does pop end. Rock is defined by drumming and rhythm guitar. Lead guitar sound and vocal sound.
at Amazon.com you can listen to some samples search for "The Feisty Piranhas." I don't think it has been done like that before.
So far, of all the listed bands I'd take Supertramp as to support the clarinet the most and show it's versatility, despite only having very few songs Breakfast in America is actually the only one I recall, the rest contains saxophone solos-some nice stuff there too, despite me not considering them rock, very soft rock at best.
thanks again to all, for putting all your knowledge and thought into that.
Keep playing!
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-11-28 11:07
Rod Rubber wrote: "Let us not be close minded..."
I try hard not to be; I really do.
As for Glenn's Beatle research, you gotta love that!
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2005-11-28 20:25
A prehistoric (1971) and obscure rock clarinet solo can be heard on the song Jackdaw by the band Audience on the album House On The Hill.
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2005-11-30 00:48
Received the CD from Amazon today after ordering it when this post first went up. Interesting sound. The clarinet is not, however, as central to the overall sound as the baritone sax was in Morphine, perhaps the rock band that has best integrated a woodwind instrument in a classic rock format (the power trio).
George
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-11-30 05:37
Max S-D wrote:
> For some real rock bass clarinet, check out
>
> www.magnesiumsf.com
>
> It's a progressive rock trio with drums, guitar and bass
> clarinet. They have mp3's on the website and they're great
> (IMO).
The clarinet player in this band, Cornelius Boots, has a link to his own very interesting website, and he teaches.
Steve Epstein
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