 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rgoldem
Date: 2005-11-25 13:37
I have a Noblet Artist C clarinet (serial B8173) which I like a lot. However, I don´t have any information about the age and quality of this instrument. Right now, I am considering to upgrade to a “better” instrument but C instruments are not commonly available and it will be quite difficult to compare them by playing and testing.
Since I am not certain a new C instrument will really make a difference I am writing the list in order to share their thoughts. Are C instruments like the Patricola much better than the Noblet? What are the really good C clarinets? I heard older Noblets are better than new ones? Is this true? Does anyone have an idea of how old is mine?
Thanks in advance.
Rick
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-11-25 14:34
I hear that the Patricola horn is good.
I have an old Noblet (an online auction find) that is nifty. I hear that they are as good as any.
C-horns are notoriously problematic with intonation. My Noblet is ok.
You might be better off with what you have now.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2005-11-25 14:53
I have a Buffet E-11 C clarinet. I don't know about others so I'm not able to compare. The horn is good for the price you pay for, but the intonations problems above E6 are difficult to deal with. I'm playing now with Flute, French Horn and Bassoon a quartet from Eler, and I'm very happy with the results (blending, pitch)
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2005-11-25 15:28
Your best bet for an outstanding C clarinet is to have one custom made by a good clarinet maker. Since these instruments are not as commonly purchased as Bb and A clarinets, I suspect less effort has been made to correct their issues. A good maker such as Stephan Fox or Schwenk and Seggelke will make you an instrument that plays much better than any of the production line models. You can also try your luck with a production line model and have it fine tuned by an acoustician such as Guy Chadash, Morrie Backun, or one of the aforementioned clarinet makers. Keep in mind though, you'll probably have to add a good chunk of money onto that production line models price to have it adjusted to play well.
Good luck
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-11-25 15:41
For many years, the Noblet was the only affordable C clarinet good enough for professional work. It was so popular that there were waiting lists, and any instrument that came in was immediately snapped up.
With the introduction of the Buffet E11, the situation changed, and the E11 is, I think, the instrument of choice. It sells for around $1,000 and is made of grenadilla rather than plastic. I've liked the ones I've tried. The intonation was good, and the tone was slightly covered, making it easy to avoid the "klezmer wail" that many C clarinets have.
However, if you have a good Noblet, a switch to the E11 probably won't make a lot of difference.
At the high end, I liked a Buffet R-13 Prestige and loved a Leblanc Opus I tried, and Steve Fox makes an even better model. Rossi also makes them. I tried a Patricola several years ago, but don't remember what it was like.
At least in New York, many top pros (e.g., Mark Nuccio in the Philharmonic) play Buffet R-13s. I have a 1929 Buffet that I like better than anything else.
Remember that you sound like yourself whatever instrument you use. The prime quality for a new instrument is intonation. Unfortunately, few stores stock more than one or at most two C clarinets, so it's pretty much take it or leave it. You just have to keep looking until you find a really good one.
Ken Shaw
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-11-25 16:16
The Doctor (Omar Henderson), who designed the very successful Forté Bb clarinet is currently testing a prototype of the new Forté C clarinet.
From what he has told me, it will be available in 2 versions - plastic for beginners/intermediate players, and wood for advanced players. All the features of the Forté Bb clarinet will be incorporated into the new C clarinet.
Tone hole placement and other modifications will hopefully alleviate many of the problems usually found in production C clarinets. Although it will be compatable with a regular Bb mouthpiece, a specially designed Redwine mouthpiece is also being planned to be included.
For more information (pricing, availability, etc...) on the Forté C clarinet, it would be best to contact Dr. Omar Henderson directly. doctorsprod@mindspring.com
As usual, I will write a review of the new instrument (good or bad) when it is ready to be sold.
Disclaimer - I was one of 4 professionals who were chosen as testers of the original Forté Bb clarinet and next week will be receiving the prototype of the Forté C clarinet, for testing, impressions, comments and suggestions. We were not paid for our services and received no professional consideration...GBK
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-11-25 16:39
For 2 years now I have been a very happy owner of a Ridenour Arioso C clarinet. With my Peter Eaton Bb mouth piece (for my big bore Elites), it makes great match for intonation in all parts of the range. This was really surprising, but if it works, fine. (?? any clarinet acousticians out there???)
My desk partner had the same experience with this C clar and her wide bore m/p. ....RT
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-11-25 17:16
Do you use a specific C-clar. mouthpiece ?
What is the common practice?
My Noblet came with a C mouthpiece but it was not all that great.
I just use my Bb/A mpc.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-11-25 17:34
I have an Amati C clarinet thats not bad. Reasonabally well in tune throughout most of its range. Which is a good thing, as I believe Amati makes the instruments for the Forte' folks. I'm wondering if the Doctor will be able to have them improve upon it.
For a low end instrument, for occassional use, it works pretty well.
I use my normal Bb mouthpiece on it (vandoren M15).
Now, Doctor, what we need is a decent student model bass clarinet (kid friendly, sturdy, durable - e.g., able to survice the trials of having young kids bang them around).
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2005-11-25 17:46)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-11-25 21:08
I've owned 2 C clarinets, a Noblet Artist and a Patricola. The Patricola was a lot better than the Noblet as far as intonation and key-action AND tone was concerned. However, the Patricola was a lot more expensive.
I used my regular Bb clarinet mouthpiece on both of these because it was a lot better than the ones that came with the instruments.
I've heard good things about both the Ridenour C and the possibility of the Forte' C. I play-tested an E-11 C and found it to be nice with a Chadash barrel. I also used a Chadash barrel on the Patricola C.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-11-25 21:38
Christopher Nichols wrote:
"A good maker such as Stephan Fox or Schwenk and Seggelke will make you an instrument that plays much better than any of the production line models"
Have you actually tried C clarinets by Fox or Seggelke? What were the advantages over instruments by Buffet and Leblanc for example?
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-11-25 23:08
I did try a Leblanc C, can't recall if it was a Noblet or Normandy, before buying my Patricola six years ago. I wasn't as skilled a player as I am now, so I can't recall how the intonation was, but I do recall it had as nice a sound as the Patricola. I had a hard time justifying the extra $400 USD for the Pat to myself, but ended up buying it because I liked its fancier keywork.
As far as Fox is concerned I know he modified Kurt Bjorling's Buffet C, by among other things, adding a basset extension, which Bjorling claimed (in a brief email exchange we had), helped the general overall intonation.
The Leblanc, as I recall, like the Amati (which I have for a back-up horn) have the short, stubby barrel and longer upper joint design, while the Patricola has a shorter upper joint and longer barrel -- and you get two of them, 46mm and 47mm. Barrels for C's have been discussed previously on this board with a consensus of opinion that one should replace stock barrels with a Chadash -- except on the Patricola. I don't know about about R13C's, E11C's, or any Selmer C's (do they make them?), though.
As far as mouthpieces, the Leblanc I tried came with a Woodwind K10M Bb mp. The Patricola, being a "professional" model, didn't come with a mp. I liked the K10M so much (my only other mp's being the stock Buffet for my Evette - Shaeffer and the Rico I bought to replace it -- anything would have sounded better than those two -- what did I know then?), that I bought one for the Patricola. Though I evolved as a player and tried many other mp's, I keep coming back to that K10M or the very similar (at least I think so) Vandoren B45 Lyre.
Ah, the klezmer sound of the C... Yes, and without even trying. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Steve Epstein
Post Edited (2005-11-25 23:15)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-11-26 00:06
Yes... the Amati C
I heard good things about it.
I am happy with my Noblet.
For what I use it for, it is sufficient.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-11-26 12:51
(Disclaimer - I am maker of the Forte' clarinet)
Thanks so much for all the interest - a deluge of emails has come my way. The Forte' C clarinet will not be produced until early 2006 and it will come with a mouthpiece designed to play well on the instrument, but we by necessity are making the clarinet to hopefully play well too with an individual's own Bb mouthpiece. The mouthpiece will be available separately as a purchase item but also not until early 2006.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2005-11-26 14:09
I'm glad you're making them for use with a regular mouthpiece. In an orchestral situation, especially in a low humidity area such as where I live, that is the practical solution. Thanks; I look forward to trying them!
Chris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-26 22:01
The 2 Noblet Cs that came to me a while back were both around 25-30 years old, and played like a dream after both being fully overhauled.
I wish I snapped one of them up as it went on sale after I did the work on it (for a reasonable price as well), then was snapped up very soon afterwards. I know someone that ownes one so there's always the chance of borrowing it if I need to.
Shame Vito never made a more affordable plastic C clarinet. I don't know if the Forte plastic C clarinet will be availlable in the UK.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-11-27 10:57
(Disclaimer - I am maker of the Forte' clarinets)
Forte' is available by mailorder and we have shipped all over the world. Both plastic and wood models of the "C", when available, will be on the Forte' web site - http://www.forteclarinet.com
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: rgoldem
Date: 2005-11-28 16:31
My thanks to everyone. All of the comments were very much appreciated.
Rick
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-11-28 18:08
Geesh Omar, I *wish* someone would make a modern C soprano sax.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-11-29 23:47
GBK, once delightfully described the tone quality of the C clarinet as (and I paraphrase here) "rather, matter of fact" ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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