 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: kfeder@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-11-17 17:50
I'm learning alto sax.....which I'm enjoying but I find that hitting the lowest notes seems to be difficult. Is this mostly a question of getting used to a different embouchure? I'm using rico 2 and 2 1/2 reeds. Any tips on hitting the low notes? Low notes on clarinet are not a problem.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-17 18:07
Low notes on sax do need more support, and more control than on clarinet - think of how wide the bore is at the bottom, and use more air and diaphragm support, but keep everything in control - don't honk out the low notes. Practice low long notes at all volumes, and scales and arpeggios at an even volume and tone quality, keeping a full sound across the range.
Make sure all the pads are seating well and the reed isn't too hard - I wouldn't use anything more than a 2.5.
The embouchure on sax is generally more relaxed, and don't be tempted to tighten up as you would do on clarinet when playing high, or the pitch will go really sharp - keep a steady embouchure all the way, and if in doubt, play along with a tuner.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-11-17 18:12
This is a very common problem for a beginner which can be remedied by playing long tones. Play for eight to twelve beats. Sometimes play from soft to as loud as you can get while still controling the pitch. Playing low notes well softly is the sign of an advancing saxophonist. You can read more about learning to play saxophone at the Sax On The Web forum.
My wife started learning how to play the sax and three months later she sits in with the jazz ensemble. She is taking lessons and learning how to improvise, bend notes, and get that vibrato where she wants it. When she compares my sax concert band music to her clarinet and oboe music, she can't believe how easy/boring the sax music is. :o)
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: archer1960
Date: 2005-11-17 18:27
Try switching directly from soprano clarinet to bari sax! I did that in 9th grade, and had great fun with it. Often I needed to whack the reed with my tongue to get it to speak on the low notes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kfeder@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-11-17 18:33
Thanks, good advice.....and I am starting to peruse the SOTW forum and I see that there are some helpful posts there as well.
One comment on the following:
"When she compares my sax concert band music to her clarinet and oboe music, she can't believe how easy/boring the sax music is"
I'm finding that some of the sax parts have lots of # sharps!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-11-17 19:19
4 out of 5 songs, such a Russian Christmas, has the clarinets playing pages of 16th and 32d notes while the saxes have predominately 8ths and few 16ths. Since we now both play clarinet and sax, I started three months ago, I have to agree with her--the clarinet music is much more challenging.
This year we had too many altos and no tenors so I'm covering the tenor parts. I have never seen so many half notes and whole notes. This is the last year I will do that. Most directors know the tenor sax parts just double other instruments anyway.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-11-17 21:29
Low notes do not work well with a clarinet embouchure. Embouchure for sax is quite different.
Pout the lips (say "Oooo") to make a really fat cushion in the lower lip before placing the reed on that cushion. That cushion is NOT pulled over the lower teeth as typical for clarinet, but more just rests against the outside of the teeth.
To get the required energy to kick off the low notes, you need less air PRESSURE than you might think, and more relaxed embouchure, but greater air FLOW.
IMHO
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-17 23:09
Don't worry about loads of sharps - saxes can be played fluently in 5 sharps or more, and you'll soon find you'll be playing with a fluidity you will never achieve on clarinet.
I can play very comfortably in sharp keys on sax even in fast passages, and I wish I could say the same when it comes to clarinet or oboe.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-11-18 01:35
I have found that hitting the lowest sax notes is difficult if the largest pads leak even a tiny bit. Sandy Runyon makes a Pad Formula which really helps seal those leaks. See www.runyonproducts.com -- Old Dave, Still Trying After All These Years
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-18 08:07
It's not the largest pads on the bell leaking that will cause grief in playing the low notes, it's the ones further up the instrument, though it's always best to have all the pads seating perfectly.
If the bell is out of line, it can be brought back in easily so the bell pads close properly.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2005-11-18 09:17
If you haven't already, stick a champagne or wine cork in the bell when you play...it helps no end with low D downwards.
I'm in the camp that feels the embouchure should be the same over the entire instrument, with possible exception of baritone. With this in mind, the 'adjustment' is done in the throat. A good open throat will help with the lowest notes. Using this method rather than changing embouchure should also help your intonation.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Heyou13
Date: 2005-11-18 10:34
haha sounds like me a few years back...i had to learn a new instrument for marching band. the band director didnt want any clarinets for marching band so im like wtf mate. but anyways i decided to pick up tenor sax and on that beast the low notes were so hard to learn at first. with many alterations in my embouchure and changes with my throat and such i was able to play that low c...yay! i was able to do it on tenor sax, im sure youll be able to pull it off on alto sax, it just takes some time and a little getting used to.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-11-18 12:17
"....I'm in the camp that feels the embouchure should be the same over the entire instrument, with possible exception of baritone...."
I am sure that any analytical flute player knows that more air pressure is needed to provide the faster air necessary to push a note up an octave with no fingering change.
Likewise with sax and clarinet, to a lesser degree, because of the assistance given by those little vents. To me, it seems a fundamental of acoustics. Try playing two octaves on sax without using the octave key to highlight this.
When there is more air pressure on a reed instrument, a slight increase in lower lip pressure against the reed is needed. It is all to do with Newton's "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
It is to THIS extent that an embouchure changes between octaves. Probably the change is not even visible, because it is a slight change in pressure rather than a change in shape.
IMHO
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2005-11-18 14:19
"A good open throat will help with the lowest notes. Using this method rather than changing embouchure should also help your intonation."
This is good advice for learning to play those troublesome low Bb & Bs on your alto/tenor/bari sax(s). Another concept that may help is to think of blowing "warm" air, as in holding your hand in front of your mouth and blow a large volume of warm air against it. Doing this requires a certain kind of diaphram support which is what you need to support and produce these low sax notes.
Another bit of advice regarding reed strength: softer is better than harder. Many clarinetists switching to sax make the mistake of trying to copy both the stronger embouchure and reed strength needed for clarinet, when the sax really requires quite a different--and more relaxed--set up. Those low notes will play easier with a softer chops and reed combo. Relax, and good luck.
Post Edited (2005-11-18 17:09)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-18 14:46
And don't try getting the low notes softly by subtoning them - that's starting the notes without tongueing and making a fat round sound (as Ben Webster used), you can apply this as a special effect after you've mastered playing the low notes controlled at all volume levels with a full tone, and the same applies to vibrato - master your tone first before using vibrato as vibrato isn't part of the tone, and then use a controlled and regular vibrato once everything else is in place.
I've been playing baritone for nearly 18 years (and owned a Yamaha 62 bari for just over 15 years) and I only use a Vandoren ZZ 2.5 (with a metal Lawton 7*BB - I think that's a tip opening of around .120 which is wide enough) - I don't feel I need to play on anything stronger than that, and I can get the entire range to speak clearly, and the bottom notes are effortless.
My 2-year old Yamaha 875EX alto plays effortlessly as well, the bell notes speak with no effort at all, and I use Vandoren Java 2 on that (and a metal Lawton 7*BB as well) - and now I'm thinking of getting an 875 tenor.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-11-18 16:26
Low note suggestions........common technique....slap a finger down as you start the low note. Flute players do it as low notes are generally soft and slow to start on the flute..................................... ....................... Also....make sure your embouchure set stays constant as you start the low note. If you start the note with a "tah" attack there is a tendency to open your jaw and actually apply less pressure on the reed. This results in a loud, blatty attack. Set....and blow... check in the mirror as you start the note. ...look for no jaw movement. keeping the set increases your chances of success. also use air! ...don't be afraid of low notes... If the embouchure set is good then your low notes won't be blatty. Practice starting low C, B, Bb and C# forte. Air should be strong but your body including your fingers should be relaxed.
FINAL SUGGESTION.....make sure articulated G# is adjusted!
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
