 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2005-11-14 14:36
Thick-blank reeds seem to be taking over the world...
Does anyone out there consistently prefer them? Or not? And why, either way? Personally, I've only found the Grand Concert Evolution to my taste, and that's not particularly thick, just 'cut with more heart' (i.e., thicker in the middle). The others I've tried (V12 & Zonda) don't give me a particularly 'pure' sound.
I've noticed that the cane of many feels much 'rougher' to me, and is harder to moisten with the tongue. I read somewhere in this blog's archive that a thick reed will feel different because the tip is cut from material further from the bark (think about it!). Or is there something about the world's cane supply that the major manufacturers aren't telling us, which is forcing them to cut thicker reeds from different cane?
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-11-14 15:41
My teach has been converting me to a new mouthpiece (Vandoren M30) and Vandoren thick (V12) reeds (#4). The set up is very different from my favored combination of a Mitchell-Lurie M3 with Mitchell-Lurie Premium reeds (4-1/2).
The Mitchell-Lurie combination is free blowing and responsive; the Vandoren is resistant, unresponsive and dark and quiet. Unfortunately, the Vandoren combination sounds a lot better; my woodwind colleagues have been commenting (favorably) on my "new sound."
I have to take more mpc with the Vandoren set-up, thin my lower lip and pinch in with the corners of my mouth. These are not just teacher's advice; the system doesn't work otherwise.
The result, after 3-weeks, I still can't play for as much as an hour before my chops are tired, lips leak; and all of my focus gets turned inward onto my embochure.
If I mount one of the Mitchell-Lurie Premium reeds on the Vandoren M30, the clarinet responds better; I can play louder fffs; I can play as softly; but it sound "reedy."
I'm going to do my best this morning to force a Mitchell-Lurie Premium 4-1/2 on my teacher this morning and try to better understand what's at work here.
Bob Phillips
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2005-11-14 15:45
I definitely get a "better to me" sound with thicker blanks. I have tried several and have settled on Zonda.
Because I also prefer a long lay mouthpiece, I frequently end up "thinning" the
reed some to make it more responsive. It still ends up thicker than thin blank reeds.
I only thin them as much as I need to for the response I want. Some I don't thin at all.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-11-14 17:09
Bob:
Despite popular opinion about VD reeds being 1/2 to 1 number stiffer, I don't buy it. I used ML 4.5s for a long time before switching to VDs. I struggled for a long time with VD 4s & 3.5s before finally realizing that VD 3s are the perfect stiffness for me. I started with regular VDs and have since moved to the V12/3 which I do like a lot.
Try it, you may find you like it.
MOO,
matt
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Author: ClarinetRepublican
Date: 2005-11-14 17:28
Really i think it depends on the mouthpiece that the reeds are being used on.
My richard hawkins seems to work better with V-12s and my Vandoren M30 seems to work better with the traditional reeds. I guess its all preference and combination.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2005-11-14 19:01
I still find good VanD traditionals, but I do think the V-12s (and the Gonzalez) are the best reeds being made today - and they are the best on all my equipment (new and vintage). Even at the lower strengths (2.5, 3.0) , the warmth and center of tone is still there.
Just wonderful!
Bill.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-11-15 00:23
I have been sticking to THIN blank reeds (currently gonzalez RC size 3.75). Don't know why, but they really impress me with playability out of the box, and I like the responsiveness of them. As per tone, it certainly is a "different" tone than a thick blank reed, but not better/worse. I still like it and it seems to work great on my current mouthpieces.
Also, I prefer rovner dark ligature, which some people refer to as a non-responsive ligature, but coupled with the reeds I use, it gives me very good control. Much better than what I was getting with V12s and FOFs.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-11-15 00:48
Matt,
Sounds like your experience with Van Dorens supports the thought that they are stiffer than many other brands for the same numerical rating.
You seem to have gone from ML 4.5s to VD 3s.
After busting my chops on VD 4.5s and 4s for the last 3 weeks, bought a box of 3.5s today. The VD V12/#4 seems to be a little harder than my Mitchell-Lurie 4.5s; but its tiring me out before I can get any practice time in.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-11-15 05:00
Just finished playing my 3-1/2th hour today --1 hour practice, 1 hour lesson, and 1-1/2 hour practice with a 3-1/2 thick blank Vandoren V12.
So, I've "come down" (in hardness designation) from a 4-1/2 Mitchell-Lurie Prestige through a 4-1/2 Vandoren V12, a 4 Vandoren to a 3-1/2 Vandoren.
Since I get lectured, demonstrated to, and generally kicked around at lessons; I was able to play the VD 4 for that hour, but have been able to take a break every 15-30 minutes practicing.
The 3-1/2 doesn't sound as good as the 4, but its not as squawky as the Mitchell-Lurie on the Vandoren mpc.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2005-11-15 08:21
I tried an M30 in the shop and it was dark, quiet, vintage... but it responded SO differently to all the reeds I brought with me that I decided not to buy the thing. Maybe I should go and have another try.
Is there any evidence that a long lay (like the M30) needs a thick blank reed? Or is that just a V12 product-literature thing? CR - you seem to suggest that traditional reeds work best on your M30.
Generally I'm finding thick blanks louder and reedier - not quite what I'm looking for. I always found Mitchell Lurie a kind of inbetweeny sort of thing... too loud and reedy for me, in the long run. And ML is a soft reed for a given number, no doubt.
Just for the (boring?) record, I'm currently favouring: LaVoz MH / 5RV / Rovner light, or (when the going gets tough) Selmer C85 120 / Rico Royal 4 / big lump of metal with screws (yes, really!)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-11-15 14:42
I've only tried my new M30 with Vandoren V12 and Mitchell-Lurid Premium reeds. The MLs are not "thick." The MLs sound reedy on this mpc (I wish for more expressive and generally agreed-upon and understood terminology for clarinet sound).
I think that the VD/VD set up is sort of at the dark side of the range, and the ML/ML set-up is at the bright side. The VD/ML and ML/VD combos are sort of in-between, but closer to the ML/ML bright, reedy side.
Right now, I could use a VD V12/#3.75 until I can get enough muscle developed to use the better sounding 4.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2005-11-15 14:54
"I wish for more expressive and generally agreed-upon and understood terminology for clarinet sound"
- Agreed...
"I could use a VD V12/#3.75..."
For me, reeds play 'softer' (but not just 'softer') on a fabric ligature (e.g. Rovner). Hey, more kit to try! ;-D
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-11-16 04:11
OOPs, forgot to mention that I'm using a Rovner --don't know if its dark or normal.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Bnewbs
Date: 2005-11-16 19:32
I only use thick blank reeds, and have been for the past few years (before that I had been using manly Vandoren selects). I like them becuase the tone tends to be darker and more centered. I also find they last longer. I don't recommend any of the Rico GCS reeds or the V12's very much. Gonzeles FOF, Vandoren rue lepic 56 and Oliveri are very good thick cut reeds. The vandoren 56s have a brighter tone (compared to oliveri and gonzales) and project as well as anything I have tried, and still have great center and focus. Both the Oliveri and Gonzales reeds have a really deep mellow sound, but do not project very well. Gonzales are also more consistent than anything else I have tried. Depending on what I am playing I will use any of the three, usaully a #3.75 Vandoren 56 or Gonzales (yes they do make a 3.75 or 3.5+ which is perfect for me) or an #3.5 Oliveri. I hope this is of some help.
Ben Newby
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