 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob
Date: 2000-04-03 19:52
I have an old wooden Albert System A clarinet that is inscribed G. Pruefer, Prov RI. Under the manufacturer's stamp in the lower section are the abbreviations L.P. Below that is the letter A. I assume the "A" is what key the instrument is in, but I have no idea what the L.P. stands for (Long Playing clarinet-?)Serial number is 2093.
Does anybody out there know anything about Pruefer clarinets? Do I have a gem here or something else? Thanks to all who respond.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-04-03 21:15
Bob wrote:
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I have an old wooden Albert System A clarinet that is inscribed G. Pruefer, Prov RI. Under the manufacturer's stamp in the lower section are the abbreviations L.P. Below that is the letter A. I assume the "A" is what key the instrument is in, but I have no idea what the L.P. stands for (Long Playing clarinet-?)Serial number is 2093.
Does anybody out there know anything about Pruefer clarinets? Do I have a gem here or something else? Thanks to all who respond.
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LP means Low Pitch. Thus it is built to the tuning standard of A=440 and so would be playable in a modern ensemble. This is in contrast to HP (high pitch), which was an A=456 standard, and HP instruments could not be played with a modern ensemble.
The letter "A" below the LP should mean that it is pitched in A.
The Pruefer company was one of the better US makers of clarinets. They manufactured clarinets from at least the early 1900s to sometime in the 1970s. At that time, their clarinet factory burned down and they got out of the business.
At times in their history, they won contracts to supply the US military.
So you probably I a fairly nice instrument here.
I happen to own a Pruefer "Artist" model from 1940 that I now let my daughters use for school. It plays very nicely and blends well with my Leblanc.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-04-03 23:10
I have a Pr single-body wood Boehm [19 keys 7 rings] ser. no. 2501 [on lower-bottom] W: B above the A key, cracked upper, barely playable now, good shiny-keywork. Really cant date it, would guess '40-50's, or earlier. Its a "retiree project" now, just want to report what is now known. Don
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2000-04-04 06:13
I have a current copy of "The Woodwind Quarterly" and they have some manufactures serial numbers that are listed SN# 6851 = 1934-1938. They don't list earlier dates. They list numbers successively up to SN# 41571 = 1954-1955. Hope this is some help jv
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-04-04 11:41
Thanx,yes, it helps, Joe, guess it puts mine way back to 20-30's! Poor guess on my part. It[nearly a F B] seems to be a well designed cl for that time period, comparing it to my 1920's Full Boehm Penzel-Mueller!!! Don
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Author: Bob
Date: 2000-04-04 16:42
Thank Dee, that info really helps. My grandfather died in 1978 at the age of 95. We all heard stories that he played the clarinet in his younger days, but no one ever asked him if he still had it. Well, when he died, I found it! (No one ever found a Bb, maybe he sold it years earlier or never had one). Well, it has been in my attic now all this time until I stumbled upon this page. Then I went hunting and found it again so I could ask about it. From what you've said, maybe it would be worth having it repaired. The wood looks great and there are no cracks. Pads/corks are all falling apart.
Thanks again to all who post. Bob
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Author: Bob
Date: 2000-04-05 16:42
Dee wrote:
LP means Low Pitch. Thus it is built to the tuning standard of A=440 and so would be playable in a modern ensemble. This is in contrast to HP (high pitch), which was an A=456 standard, and HP instruments could not be played with a modern ensemble.
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Why would they manufacture an instrument that could not be played with an ensamble? That dosen't make sense to me.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-04-05 20:23
Bob wrote:
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Dee wrote:
LP means Low Pitch. Thus it is built to the tuning standard of A=440 and so would be playable in a modern ensemble. This is in contrast to HP (high pitch), which was an A=456 standard, and HP instruments could not be played with a modern ensemble.
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Why would they manufacture an instrument that could not be played with an ensamble? That dosen't make sense to me.
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The key words are <B><I>modern ensemble</I></B>. Many instruments were pitched at A=456 back then.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-04-05 20:33
Bob wrote:
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Dee wrote:
LP means Low Pitch. Thus it is built to the tuning standard of A=440 and so would be playable in a modern ensemble. This is in contrast to HP (high pitch), which was an A=456 standard, and HP instruments could not be played with a modern ensemble.
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Why would they manufacture an instrument that could not be played with an ensamble? That dosen't make sense to me.
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In the first quarter of the 1900s, there were many ensembles playing at A=456. There was *NO* standard pitch until the 1890s and the one established then was totally ignored. Prior to the 1890s, there were many different pitches used around the world. Slowly things settled down. During that first quarter, there were many ensembles at A=440 and many at A=456. Gradually A=440 was winning the race (the higher pitch was hard on singers). In the early 1930s, an international body established A=440 as *the* standard pitch. Even this isn't followed completely though as it seems that Europe likes to tune to A=442.
So at the time clarinets were marked HP (built to A=456), there WERE ensembles using that pitch.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2000-04-06 02:27
Thanks. I counted the keys on this clarinet, it has 16. There are only two keys on RH pinky, 2 on LH pinky. These are roller keys. The Ab/A key does not lift as the A key is pressed - it's made that way. Is this an indication of an early clarinet, or are all A clarinets made this way?
I guess my question is, do I have a museum piece here that may be worth some bucks? Thanks for bothering to answer my questions. Bob
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-04-06 03:02
Bob wrote:
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Thanks. I counted the keys on this clarinet, it has 16. There are only two keys on RH pinky, 2 on LH pinky. These are roller keys. The Ab/A key does not lift as the A key is pressed - it's made that way. Is this an indication of an early clarinet, or are all A clarinets made this way?
I guess my question is, do I have a museum piece here that may be worth some bucks? Thanks for bothering to answer my questions. Bob
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This is either a very late Albert system or an early Oehler system. The new A clarinet that you would buy in the US today would have the same key layout as the standard Bb. That would be the Boehm system (has 4 keys for the right little finger and 3 for the left).
You might have an old instrument but probably not a museum piece. Old Alberts are fairly plentiful on the online auctions. If in very good condition, they go for around $100. A very few selected instruments occasionally go noticeably higher. Matched sets bring a little more than the individual instruments would bring if split up.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-04-06 03:07
As far as age, the fact that it is actually marked LP puts this clarinet as being most likely pre-1930 and post-1890.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2000-04-07 14:25
I really appreciate your replies. Since I do repair instruments, (but know little about A clarinets obviously), I fixed this instrument up. The keys shine beautifully, and the wood is very fine. It plays good, but the fingering is weird. In order to play F natural I have to use 1 & 3 - there is no key ring on first finger RH. And, as I said, there are no alternate fingering positions. The holes are pretty spread out too. It really has a nice sound though. It is hard to play the Mozart when I'm used to having more keys that are not on this instrument! But if all I could get is 100 bucks for it, I guess I'll just see if my son our daughters would want to try to play it. Thanks again.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-04-07 15:30
Bob wrote:
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I really appreciate your replies. Since I do repair instruments, (but know little about A clarinets obviously), I fixed this instrument up. The keys shine beautifully, and the wood is very fine. It plays good, but the fingering is weird. In order to play F natural I have to use 1 & 3 - there is no key ring on first finger RH. And, as I said, there are no alternate fingering positions. The holes are pretty spread out too. It really has a nice sound though. It is hard to play the Mozart when I'm used to having more keys that are not on this instrument! But if all I could get is 100 bucks for it, I guess I'll just see if my son our daughters would want to try to play it. Thanks again.
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For an Albert fingering chart, pick up a copy of the Rubank Beginning Method Book (not the Intermediate or Advanced). Be sure the fingering chart hasn't fallen out. One side will show the Albert system and the other will show the Boehm.
If your children already play clarinet, it would be ok to let them fool around with it. It would NOT be a good idea to use this as an instrument to learn on. If they later wanted to get a modern instrument, they would have to relearn the fingering. This country (and much of the rest of the world) uses the Boehm system. A few areas such as Germany and Austria use a later descendent of the Albert that is called the Oehler system.
Some jazz players do like the old Alberts and might be willing to pay more but eBay probably isn't the way to go. People who go there are after bargains and the smart ones also realize the risks of buying without being able to handle the instruments and so keep their bids low.
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