 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jamies
Date: 2005-10-29 16:07
My bottom lip hurts and I have consulted 3 dependable teachers. I've tried everything I've been told. Lower the clarinet, make an O shape embrochure, put more pressure on the upper teeth, and leave the mouth in a natural position than put the clarinet in.
Well... none of it works.
My sound is not "thin" or pinched and I can reach the altissimo just fine and in tune. My reed is not excessively hard either. it is a 3.
When it was at its worst, I desperately stuck a little sponge between my teeth and gum. That was not very effective.
I have read the older posts. I honestly cannot play with anything in my mouth (I've tried) and I've tried to change my embrochure with not difference in the pain.
Please help.
Thanks
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-29 19:10
I feel your pain.
A sponge will completely collapse. There were a lot of good suggestions earlier on what others have used. Bottom line is that you need to use something. Since I'm cheap I experiment with what's lying around. I used to use the bags from Keebler Pecan Sandies, cutting a strip the required width but making it long enough to fold over twice and still be able to fold over the bottom teeth. Keebler no longer makes their cookie bags out of paper with a thin film of plasitc over the inside. I'm heartbroken. I switched to a thin piece of leather cut to size. Three months and no wear.
Of course there is the whole "change the way you play" route. The only way to break the habit is to go completely double lip for a year. Of course this will embue you with a much lighter style that you may not like in the end, but you'll experience the "other side."
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2005-10-29 19:48
You can have a wonderful embouchure and still feel pain...cigarette papers over the teeth certainly help for me I know others who use florist tape and chamois leather.
I used to play double lip, and had the same issues then.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2005-10-29 21:25
Jamies, I have RA and take methotrextate. That medication reduces the normal amount of Follic Acid in my system and,on ocassion, my inner lower lip seems to get "gnawed" by my teeth. For me an increase of Follic Acid (pills) over my normal amount cures the problem in about three-four days.
Check with your Dr. and see if your levels of Follic acid are low. It's only a vitamin and it's cheap.
I'm not a Doctor, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night--but it seems to work for me.
Bob Aand
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Author: luckyclarinettoenla
Date: 2005-10-29 22:13
Jamies,
I have completely felt your pain. There are some quick fixes as well as some long term solutions.
Quick fix #1. Try to play with a neck strap. It will subtly change the position of the clarinet in your mouth and lessen some of the jaw pressure.
Quick fix #2. I went to Advance Auto parts, and bought some thin "shammy" cloth, the kind that you use to dry cars with. Cut a piece and put it over my bottom teeth. This worked quite well except that it affords for squeaking if you are not careful.
I found that when I used these solutions, they did help with the pain, and then gradually I started to practice without these aids. Just a few minutes a day at first then moving on to playing without them. Now my lip only hurts when I play for hours on end, and well, that's to be expected. I'm not suggesting that this will definitly work for you, but perhaps you should give it a shot. Let us know!
Lucky
Never fool yourself into believing that today's 'good enough' will do tomorrow!
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-10-30 03:23
I just changed my embochure under the advice of my new teacher. Mostly taking more mouthpiece and "thinning" my lower lip.
The results: much fuller tone, and bleeding from my lower lip. I have a post-orthodontic lower arch collapse that exposes the corners of my front teeth.
I tried my old lower teeth cover --made by folding over a piece of mylar to cover the four lower incisors, but its not wide enough to protect the trouble spot. I lightened up for a day, and can tolerate a couple hours of practice --hoping I'm keeping some of the revised lower lip position.
A colleague just came to practice with a lower teeth guard --like the bottom half of an athletic mouthpiece. It's thin, cost him $60 to have made by a local dentist; loves it.
Good luck. I may try the dentist-made pad if my next lesson leads to another tone improvement and bleeding, too.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Grant
Date: 2005-10-30 03:48
My wife has a pad made for her by a wonderful dentist in of all places Sandpoint Idaho when she was in high school. She still uses it over 40 years later and treats it like gold.The dentist was making mouthpieces for football players and did hers for free. His son played drums in the band so he was sympathetic to music students.
Peace on Earth and May You always have a reed that PLAYS.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-30 10:10
Hey Bob,
Bleeding seems a wee bit extreme of a reaction. Does your new teacher know of this side affect? If you are practicing eight hours a day I might give that a pass. If not, you'll never be able to practice eight hours a day with that level of discomfort.
Practice makes perfect, beeding just makes you pale.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-30 11:29
I can't believe I forgot this !!!!!
How do you hold your clarinet? That is, if you look at Daniel Bonade's "Clarinetist's Compendium," he suggests that the proper angle of the mouthpiece in the mouth is such that the bottom teeth are not "chomping" directly towards the reed/mouthpiece but rather that it is a glancing blow (my words, not his). Even the provided stick figure illustration shows a clarinet held in profile significantly less that 45 degrees up from the body.
So, my suggestion is to hold your head up straight (as always of course) yet bring the clarinet in towards the body to be more akin to 20 degrees from the axis of your body - if that!!!!!
The upshot will be that the tip of the mouhtpiece will now be way up behind the front teeth. Try practicing long tones, slurred scales for an hour (to avoid the tonguing) to see how that feels on the lips, and how it feels in general and how it sounds.
If you march, you will not be able to see your lyre - damn. Just march however you must and forget it when you practice or are in orchestra.
For those of you who are not adherents of Bonade as the father of the American school of playing, keep in mind he was born in Switzerland to French parents (who were also great musicians) and he studied with Henri Lefebvre - so there!!!!!!
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-10-30 16:25
My new teacher is not aware of my discomfort. I went to him fresh from some serious, extended get-ready workouts --didn't want to seem unworthy. The first thing he said to me after I got my stick together was, " take more mouthpiece." He holds his instrument closer to his body than I, but I think that his and my over/under bites are different.
Later, he suggested that I "thin" my lower lip. Then, he set up the rear-view mirror and had me get the air pouches out of my cheeks.
Quiet a bunch of habit changes needed here. We focused on my current major technical difficulty: playing the Waltz of the Flowers clarinet solos on a Bb clarinet instead of the A (E-major, pinky keys instead of F-major pinkies).
When I got home and tried demonstrating my new, fuller tone at home; the discomfort got very noticeable. By audition time the following day (playing at the "Waltz"), I was bleeding.
Since then, I've got things under control, but don't know if that's because I've slipped back to my old embochure --or accommodated the new teeth/lip engagement. I'll know a week from tomorrow; and if I've back-slid, I'll head for the Sandpoint dentist.
Thanks for the coaching; I certainly thing that bleeding for my sport (not rugby or mountain biking) is extreme!
Bob Phillips
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-10-31 15:16
You CAN play with a form of a "slip cover" in your mouth and if soreness occurs one should always protect their tissue. A "correct" embouchure set is helpful in minimizing lip soreness but in the grand scheme, it's a combination of the right fundamentals. Everything head to toe is interlaced and work together: 1) embouchure set 2) positioning of upper/lower torso 3) head angle 4) jaw motion and tightness 5) wrist and thumb position 6) sitting/standing posture 7) even, finger height and curvature.
The issue can also be individual playing fatigue and/or endurance. I use EZO brand Heavy upper/lower denture cushions to cover my bottom teeth. They eliminate cutting the inside lower lip and even reduce indentation marks. I normally pre-cut 30 rectangular sections to form-fit my 4 front lower teeth (you can also cut for front 2 only.) To fashion a mold, momentarily wet then depress against the teeth firmly using left and right thumb (outside) and forefingers (inside.) The cushion softens and binds to the lower teeth. After use, it dries and retains shape for future sessions. I like to store them in a zip lock sandwich bag or Sucrets/metal mints candy box.
Denture cushions (of many tools) are a viable and economical alternative to a ($50-$1,000) dentist-quality custom molded retainer. A single cushion can last weeks and literally add "quality hours" of playing time as well as build endurance. As a full time player, I can get up to a year out of one $3.95 box. v/r Ken
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-10-31 16:32
Keith Stein used a very thin cover made of gold over his lower teeth. He said it evened out the irregularities and covered any sharp edges.
When I'm in good shape, I have a callus on the inside of my lower lip that prevents cutting. I've also had my dentist just touch the sharp corners and tips of my canines with a diamond disk.
Try maybe 3 or 4 thicknesses of newspaper folded over your lower teeth. It costs nothing, and I've found I quickly stop noticing it. I've also used a 1" x 3/4" piece real chamois over my upper lip (I play double lip).
Ken Shaw
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Author: Tamas
Date: 2005-11-01 12:25
It could be that the sharp upper edges of the reed cut into your bottom lip, this is why it hurts. Try to sand the edges round, it surely will not affect the strength of the reed but will remove the sharp edges.
Tamas
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2006-11-09 13:59
I don't know how you get your lips to bleed. I have never felt any pain in my lips even efter a week of 8 hours practice each day. I use now Grabner AW-personal mouthpiece with Gonzalez FOF reeds no. 3.25(similar to V-12 no. 3.5). I think people that have this problem moved to quikly to harder strenght reed or are playing on the wrong reed/mouthpiece companion. I used to use V-12 no. 3 on a Bay MO-L mouthpiece but now I tried it few days ago and I think I need even harder reeds than V-12 no. 3.5/FOF 3.25
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2006-11-09 17:30
I've had some trouble with lower lip pain also, usually only after I've gotten back from a vacation from playing or try to play longer than normally do in one day. In general my embouchure is in excellent shape.
I've found that getting a dispenser of Johnson&Johnson "Cloth tape" works wonders. Cut a piece off and fold it over so that the adhesive sticks to adhesive. Then bend it and cover your front teeth. It takes a little bit to work it in and your mouth might be a little dry at first.
This is a cheap and effective way to protect your lower lip. Some people I know always play with this. I usually use it for a little bit until I build my embouchure strength and callus back up.
Hope this helps.
Steve
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Author: KellyA
Date: 2006-11-09 18:05
I decided at 29 years old, to get braces. The good part is that my teeth are looking great, and the result will be level teeth to minimize embouchure irritations. However, right now, I cannot practice very long at all because of the lower lip pain. Playing in the wind ensemble at the university last year was a challenge. There were many times when my lip was in terrible pain. After playing I could pull my lip down and see the imprint of the brackets! I'm glad that players are sharing some of this information, maybe it can help me as well.
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Author: sherman
Date: 2006-11-09 18:46
I have found double lip to be the most therapeutic manner in which to learn to play correctly.Or to get rid of bad or hurtful playing problems. You stop bleeding, or close to it, (unless you love to bleed), you cease to bang your fingers, your legato improves immensely, and you can play in any manner implied by the music.
My practice while playing 8 services a week was to use it to play all the unisons in the orchestra, and it was really helpful. While I still play single, the 'tulip" is the best and most natural embouchure to play, for me, for anyone.
But, while I am reluctant to mention this, when playing single lip, my lip got so sore I actually used LANACANE, and it helped. Just a bit, but ......
I think I saw it mentioned somewhere above but checking your lower teeth is a good idea, and if jagged and/or hurtful, having them safely filed by a dentist is a procedure that works well.
Sherman Friedland
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2006-11-09 21:48
Sounds like a "biting" embouchure to me. My feeling is that if one needs a thick "pad" between one's lower teeth and the lower teeth, make the pad out of your own lips.
Strengthen your orbicularis oris and cheek muscles by holding a wooden pencil between (only) your lips by its (not-too-sharp!) tip - straight out at 90 degrees from your face until you feel burning in the muscles, than rest and repeat. Do it at odd times when you aren't practicing - increase your minutes.
A variation is to slowly move the pencil up and down while holding it only with the lips.
Your sound will be better, and it may cure the biting embouchure because of the great control the strengthened muscles afford.
Worked for me.
b//
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