 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: hobscrk777
Date: 2005-10-28 00:33
I have a big question that I hope someone can explain to me. I've been playing clarinet for about 7 years (since middle school band) and I should probably upgrade to a better mouthpiece. I stopped taking private lessons earlier this year, but towards the end of it my teacher suggested getting a better mouthpiece because mine ''offered a lot of resistance'' as she put it. The mouthpiece was a generic buffet mouthpiece that came on my E11. I'm playing on Vandoren 3.5's if that affects your answer.
So my question is, what are the pros and cons of an open or closed tip mouthpiece, and a short or long faced mouthpiece? I understand that a more open mouthpiece gives you a clearer, less pinched sound, but that's really the extent of my knowledge. Thanks for any help you can offer.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-28 01:17
Each individual player will develop their own prejudices based on all the factors that make up your embrochure and the way you play. My (anecdotal) preference is for a longer lay because it allows ME better control of the pitch (also vibrato, glisses when I really want that) via varying degrees of embrochure pressure (I do not use diaphragmatic vibrato).
The tip opening should also be thought of in delicate balance with the strength of your reed. Just avoid extremes, find something comfortable that allows quick tonguing, good sound and pitch in all registers and for god sakes, get rid of the Buffet mouthpiece !!!!! :-)
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-10-28 01:26
I don't know anyone who plays a "generic Buffet mouthpiece." Even as a kid, that was the first thing to go when I opened the case to get at my new Buffet.
open/closed, long/short just cause you to need a different reed. The shorter the lay, the harder you have to press on the reed to get it to play, and life gets easier with a softer reed. The more open the mouthpiece, the harder you must press to get the reed to vibrate, and life gets easier with a softer reed.
It depends on you: match a reed to the mouthpiece and try it out. Working toward a stiffer reed makes the horn more responsive, and seems to be where better players end up --but that just means "stiff enough" to play with the mouthpiece.
In general, you need to try many, many mouthpieces. I imagine that you'll fall in lust with the a different mpc. Its all up to you, but you owe it to yourself to do this experiment.
Order a few mouthpieces on approval from a good retailer. Get a mouthpiece patch/cushion for each (two if you use a metal ligature that could scratch the trial mpc). Its also helpful to have a spare ligature so that you can set up a new/trial mpc and swap it easily with your usual piece.
Lay in two (or more) of each strength of reed --say from 2 to 4-1/2 in Mitchell Lurie Premiums. Get good reeds, so that your small sample of two is likely to contain one good one of each size.
Set up a mpc with cushion(s), mount it up and get a reed to work with it. Compare it to your usual, baseline, set-up. Go through the mouthpieces.
Find the one you like the best and get back to your supplier. Tell him/er what you've learned and see what they think would carry you further along your path toward wonderfullness. Send the rejects back, repeat.
An alternative is to look on eBay for mpcs that folks tell you are worth trying.
Here's my list: Vandoren M30, Mitchell-Lurie M3, Gennusa GE**
Your mileage will vary.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-10-28 01:36
It is hard to say as there are so many factors besides tip opening. The length of the lay coupled with the tip is a huge factor. At the same time, various internal dimensions- baffle shape, chamber, etc can have a variety of effects. Tome Ridenour has a good article on the subject that outlines some of the factors and can hopefully give you some understanding.
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/facings.htm
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-10-28 02:26
Bob Phillips makes me feel OLD......Buffet supplied a nice mpc. in the 60's, it was on a Chedeville blank. Unfortunately the plastic junk they now supply is useless.
In addition to Ridenour's blurb, Brad Behn also has a nice review of the subject http://www.behnmouthpieces.com/ to go with his student and Artist models, as well as with the Vintage model.
There are a lot of good upgrades available, many with trial policies, and others which can be tried via the larger suppliers.
Greg Smith, Walt Grabner, Fobes, Hite, Ben Redwine (Genussa) and Brad Behn make quality products and are listed on the "retail" resource section of this website.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: hobscrk777
Date: 2005-10-28 02:35
Thank you all for your comments. I looked around on some of the older pages of this forum and I think I just need to go to my local music store and try some out firsthand. Which is exactly what I plan to do this weekend.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2005-10-28 03:47
I am one of those who still plays on the "generic" Buffet mouthpiece that came with the clarinet which I bought in 1972. But I switch around - Vandoren B-45, Borbeck, Pamarico crystal, and an old old Arbex which is white and rather snazzy looking, and which I have played so much I have nearly chewed a hole through it. It's almost like reeds. Sometimes you like one brand or strength better than the other, so I keep quite a supply of reeds on hand.
The very best thing to do though is go to a music store and try out as many as they have. That is how I found the Borbeck. Then the dog ate it and I had to order directly from Mr. Borbeck himself. Good luck!
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-10-28 11:25
Hi,
I also play a Buffet "generic" Chedeville C Crown and have a C as a backup. I got the better one for about $50 on eBay and the second for $20 (from a standmate). Both have a nice tonal ring, are reed-friendly, and produce a very big tone.
It was said, I believe in Shannon Thompson's dissertation, that when Portnoy joined the Philadelphia he played a "generic" Buffet Ched as well.
HRL
PS I don't know if I can stand another MP thread but I'll try to be strong!
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Author: hobscrk777
Date: 2005-10-28 19:57
Does anyone have any particular experience with E11's? What mouthpieces do you find generally match up well with this clarinet?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-10-28 20:52
The vandoren 5RVLyre works OK for me as well as the Pyne Polycrystal.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-10-29 00:01
Carol Dutcher said,
"The very best thing to do though is go to a music store and try out as many as they have. That is how I found the Borbeck."
That's exactly what I did. I had my wife listen without telling her which mpc's I was trying. I didn't even look myself. When I narrowed ALL the mpc's down to a couple that really sounded best; I mean I really liked them, it turned out to be a Borbeck #14, and a Borbeck #16! I tested about 30 mpc's with a C Buffet Simple system, and an A Buffet Albert system (both about 95 yrs old at the time).
So her advice is good. Just be consistent with what you play to test; try to make it a blind test so you're not influenced by names etc., and see what you discover!!
Good luck!!
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-10-29 02:36
I still find that Clark Fobes mouthpieces are some of the best out there. Great sound, tuning and response. Very reed friendly and extremely consistent. He makes them at a variety of price levels.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2005-11-11 09:14
As someone who used to play exactly the same equipment at the same sort of age, I suggest you take a look at the the good ol' Vandoren 5RV. But remember, different things work for different people.
The same reeds should blow with similar strength on a short, closed mouthpiece as on a long, open mouthpiece. A long, closed mouthpiece (e.g. Vandoren 'M' series) is likely to demand stronger reeds.
For myself, I find a long, open mouthpiece (e.g. Selmer C85 120) gives me a 'bigger' sound (essentially, more interesting) but is harder to control. I wouldn't like to say whether this is good or bad for 'advancing' players...
And on top of this, there's issues of chamber etc. For example: I like B45 dot a lot but can't play B45. I've no idea why (might start a thread on it...)
Moral? Try a few.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-11-11 11:04
I'm glad this thread made a comeback because I need to set the record straight on the Buffet mouthpieces. The one provided with a brand new Greenline purchased a few weeks ago is very good. I would easily compare it to the Vandoren M30 or even a Hite perhaps. The oddity is that the chamber is really small and the horn plays at least 20 cents higher with this mouthpiece !!
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-11-11 18:52
It's rare to find a good stock mouthpiece (meaning the one that comes with your new instrument). There are exceptions to any rule, however. But, generally speaking it is best to purchase an upgrade on the mouthpiece right away. Many teachers prefer their students to get something that is widely accepted for tone like the Vandorens. Most popular is the B45. They are also easy to find at a good price on eBay, a good place for the beginning mouthpiece shopper to start the quest for the Holy Grail. I also like the Genussa Intermediate for student players. It's a reasonable price and sounds great with easy articulation. It has many of the features of higher dollar mouthpieces.
But, alas, the mouthpiece is such a personal choice. I would highly recommend purchasing another one right away and make your teacher happy with your sound.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-11-11 22:16
I have students playing E-11's with Vandoren M-15 and B-40 lyre mouthpieces, both with very good results. More important: replace the short barrel that comes with the clarinet with a Moennig 66 or 67 mm barrel. It will improve the sound as well as the pitch of your E-11!
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