 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2005-10-26 22:28
In advance, I apologize for a really (really) geeky question. But, was there any logic to the stamping of Selmer clarinet bells in the 30s and 40s as to whether they would - or would not - bear the additonal "Sole Agents, U.S. & Can Selmer New York - Elkhart"? I have three of these clarinets, L, M, and N series. None are marked as to "model" (RI, BT, 55, etc.), and only the N series has simply the Henri Selmer wreath - no additional marks.
Was it an issue of the clarinets being exported - or not?
Bill.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-26 22:45
I think it's only the US market (or probably those sold elsewhere outside Europe) Selmers that have all the extra info - my own Centered Tone pair (N and P series) only have the logo and a bit lower down in very small letters 'MADE IN FRANCE' on their bells - but another N series CT I have has the 'SOLE AGENTS etc. etc.' in between the logo and 'MADE IN FRANCE' - the spacing between the logo and the 'MADE IN FRANCE' is the same on all.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-10-27 00:25
Bill- As Chris has said, Selmer's markings have changed widely over the years. My C T, P 97xx [1954], has the "wreath" and on the bell is added the Sole Agents showing only Paris and Elkhart however, with France. My newer alto cl, B series, has the wreath and France, nothing on the metal bell. My RI, a full Boehm 1932, has the full info, I'm quite sure. I'll check out my bass cl, 1960, and report is significatly different. All kinds !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-10-27 04:14
On my Selmer sopranos (A and Bb full Boehm), the stamping of the "US related" information is not quite as well done as the marks put on over in France. The stamping on the bell is ever so slightly "misaligned" from the center axis of the horn, leading me to believe that it was slapped onto a bell over here, and said bell and a barrel mated with the two long joints to produce a finished product.
It might have something to do with duty paid as well. One of the reasons Japanese cars were once given their air conditioning units "at the port" is that the parts shipped with a different (lower) tariff than do the assembled vehicles. It could have been the same issue with horns.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2005-10-27 15:29
My Selmer instruments from this period also have varying "U.S." logos added to their bells, but not on their barrels or joints, although markings like Balanced Tone, Centered Tone, Radio Improved, etc., are also reported to have been only for the U.S. market. The instruments with these markings on their bells include a K from the 30s, an M from the 40s, and an "original" Omega from the 1950s. There is a similar type of logo on a G. M. Bundy Paris clarinet I have from the 20/30s. As pointed out by others, based on the alignment of some of these logos, it looks to me like the Paris logos and the U.S. logos may have been added at different times. Although this might be a function of age, the U.S. logos appear to not go as deeply into the wood as do the Paris logos. Over time the U.S. logos did change, athough it appears not in a systematic way toward more or less detail and ornateness. My later instruments from the 1960s and 1970s including Selmer Paris Mazzeos do not have U.S. logos on the bells.
Terry's point that this might have had something to do with import taxes is an interesting one. Can anyone shed any light on this?
Also, is it possible that Selmer U.S., a legally separate company, was required to mark the U.S. horns with their logos and then required to not re-export these into other markets where someone else had an exclusive distributorship with Selmer (Paris)?
George
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-27 16:13
The earlier Mk. VI saxes had similar markings (I think up until about 1964-5) - the Selmer Paris logo and Selmer USA 'Gothic' logo on the bell with other info, and a load of patent numbers by the serial number.
I must admit on my pair (both 19/7 system), the N69xx Bb doesn't have 'Centered Tone' on the top joint, and has the two-piece speaker bush like the BT, but the P10xx has identical keywork as the Bb, and the heavy one-piece hexagon speaker bush - but with the large fitting (same thread as the BT-type) - the later P series CTs had slightly chunkier keywork and the speaker bush had the same size hexagonal head, but a narrower thread into the body - as the Series 9s have. But the Series 9 speaker bush is set higher up the joint than the CTs.
And an N84xx CT Bb I have (17/6) has 'Centered Tone' on the top joint, and the heavy one-piece hexagon speaker bush.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-10-30 13:06)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2005-10-30 01:35
Bill,
Yes, the marking "Sole Agents, U.S. & Can Selmer New York - Elkhart" was an issue of the clarinets being exported. Clarinets sold in Europe had no such marking.
Early L-series Selmer clarinets had no *BT* stamp on them and had a shared post for the throat A/G#. The bell had more traditional shape.
Starting with the serial number around L3500 clarinets were marked *BT* and received separate posts for the throat A/G#. BTs (Balanced Tone) models extended to the M-series approximately up to the serial number M5000.
Selmer clarinets above the serial number M5000 and up to the serial number N7250 again did not have any name. Most refer to them simply as the "M" or "N" series. These instruments had huge register vent with two little (pin) holes in it for the special key to unscrew this vent. This huge vent helps to clear throat Bb and you'll find it only on no name "M" and "N" series clarinets.
Above the serial number N7250 clarinets were marked "Centered Tone" The most famous Selmer clarinet for Jazz.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Bill
Date: 2005-10-30 12:32
Thanks, Vytas. I have an "L" with a three-digit serial number (L296). It is as you say, with a more traditionally-shaped bell (it's pictured above) and a different layout for the keywork (different bridge key, different layout of keys relative to where the two joints separate, no top tenon cap, etc.). The clarinet came to me with a very (Selmer) short barrel, which might or might not be the original. The clarinet cnanot be played in tune with this barrel, and I must use the barrel from an M series (M8446).
My "M" (M8446) and "N" (N5922) appear to be the identical clarinet except that the M has a flat spring for the C#-G# key. Only the N is in playing condition.
Bill.
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