 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kfrank1
Date: 2005-10-27 03:54
I came across the following list of historic clarinet players
[ Please use a link instead of copying from the web site: http://www.niu.edu/user/u40gmb1/Cl_historic_clarinetists.shtml - GBK ]
and was wondering if I were to study the past masters who would they be? Sorry, I am not familiar with most of the names below. Is there a general consensus on who the past masters are? For example for jazz saxophone it is generally agreed that there are 5 players who are essential to study because they all introduced a new style of playing that still effects the way the instrument is played by the greats of today.
Is there a simlar list of players for clarinet?
Thanks!
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-10-27 08:16
How would you "study" them? Most of players on that list died before sound recording was invented. Surely the whole point of studying the jazz masters is to listen to their recordings.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-10-27 15:23
kfrank1,
Perhaps we could create a new list, of those who were able to leave recordings, after establishing criteria for qualifying a clarinet player as a "master".
Regards,
Hans
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-10-27 18:57
Ok, I'll take up the challenge. Who are the 5 saxophone masters?
In no particular order:
Coleman Hawkins
Lester Young
Charlie Parker
John Coltrane
Sonny Rollins
but wait, what about:
Johnny Hodges
Chu Berry
Ben Webster
Dexter Gordon
Benny Carter
Ornette Coleman
Wardell Gray
Hershal Evans
Lucky Thompson
Ike Quebec
Illinois Jacquet
Harry Carney
Jack Washington
Buddy Tate
Paul Quinichette
Paul Gonsalves
John Handy
Don Byas
Art Pepper
Pepper Adams
Gerry Mulligan
Joe "Foots" Thomas
Bud Johnson
Russell Procope
George Coleman
Sidney Bechet
Cannonball Adderley
& more
Study them all...
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2005-10-27 19:09
Stan Getz
Zoot Sims
(and a boot to the first one who names Kenny G)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-10-27 19:27
Oh Boy, what a good list of saxy names, Glad to see G Mulligan made it, I would nominate Tim Ries, [present day] and others, how about some classical sax players?, and then there are quite a few of fine jazz cl players also as we have "explored" before. No end [or beginning !] to talent. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-27 19:58
What? No Paul Desmond? ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
The clarinet list is missing MANY influential players over the past 100 years, starting with Bonade...GBK
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Author: kfrank1
Date: 2005-10-27 20:50
David, couldn't you study the masters before the recording era by looking at any music they published? I guess that would take many names off the list for starters.
larryb, I know what you mean, but you have to start somewhere so you might as well start with the top 5 in your list and then move on from there, right?
I was just thinking there might be a similar short list that has a general consensus for clarinet players
thanks
Post Edited (2005-10-27 20:51)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-27 21:45
kfrank1 wrote:
> I was just thinking there might be a similar short list that
> has a general consensus for clarinet players
Clarinet players reaching a general consensus??
Best laugh I've had all day...GBK 
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Author: kfrank1
Date: 2005-10-27 22:02
ok, well I came accross this site:
http://www.clarinet.org/fests/1999/Cipolla.asp
They list the following books for getting an insight into such players
[ Snipped - There is no reason to list all the books and commentary from the web site - GBK]
That plus Pamela Weston's Great Clarinetists of the Past should keep me busy
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-27 23:20
You and your animated icons, GBK.
Good point though. No matter who you mention, someone will bring up someone you "forgot" and someone on that list who they "can't believe" you mentioned.
The best 'final' result you could get would be to set a minimum requirement of some sort (perhaps 85% or so) and of any responses or information you find, if someone's name is mentioned by that percent of people, you can personally consider it him/her a "master". Although I might be one of the 15% to disagree . . .
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: kfrank1
Date: 2005-10-27 23:57
Ok, so are there any takers to post their short list of players to study either via recordings or compositions?
Thanks
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-10-28 00:44
kfrank1,
Re: players who are essential to study, I would nominate Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw to the list, based on their ability to play both classical and jazz music.
IMO the term "master" should include the ability to improvise on the instrument.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: kfrank1
Date: 2005-10-28 02:26
Thanks Hans. I personally would like to see some strictly classical players on this short list too, especially since the history of playing goes back to the beginning of the instrument, around 1800?
My guess is that there are so many great players and no one player stands head and shoulders above the others in the classical world, that any short list would be purely subjective.
However I seem to remember there was a book published a few years ago ranking the greatest composers of all time (Bach, Mozart, Beethoven were the top 3) so if they can do that with composers, why not with clarinetists? (at least the ones with recordings or published works)
Post Edited (2005-10-28 02:28)
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Author: ned
Date: 2005-10-28 03:41
Barrett's ''Masters of the Clarinet'' list curiously ends with Pete Fountain. I would be interested in knowing the criteria for such a selection.
Certainly the first 22 on the list would not have recorded, so first hand knowledge their individual sound would be impossible. Of the final 9, certainly I am familiar with Goodman and Fountain and perhaps the others have recorded as well - I wouldn't really know because they did not play in the jazz genre (as far as I am aware).
So, was the list compiled with a view to including just those players who have played only classical? I know Goodman recorded numerous classical works, but did Fountain?
How could the unrecorded players have possibly been assessed for all the necessary qualities to even be on such a list in the first instance?
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Author: kfrank1
Date: 2005-10-28 04:42
Well maybe they may not have been the best of all time, but probably the best in their era's. I guess it's the same kind of thing with sporting greats of all time, say Jess Owens vs Carl Lewis, you probably have to put them in because they were the greatest of their time.
So maybe I should rephrase the question to "who were the greatest clarinetists in each generation or era"
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-28 04:54
kfrank1 wrote:
> So maybe I should rephrase the question to "who were the
> greatest clarinetists in each generation or era"
Define "greatest" ...GBK
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Author: ned
Date: 2005-10-28 05:36
''I guess it's the same kind of thing with sporting greats of all time, say Jess Owens vs Carl Lewis, you probably have to put them in because they were the greatest of their time.''
Quite possibly you are right with the sporting analogy, where performance can be gauged by accessing written records of their achievements and is quantifiable, but music is principally an aural experience and if a performer is unrecorded, a judgement of his/her ability is next to impossible.
The written record of (say) a clarinet player, by an observer, can be only a view of the author of that record and should be not taken as an all encompassing opinon of the particular performer's actual talent.
To say that (for example) ''Mr ...........was one of the all time greats'' must likely be misleading to the modern reader.
To use an example from the dawn of jazz - Papa John Joseph recalled to Bill Russell and Richard B. Allen in the 1950s ''Buddy Bolden outplayed that of John Robichaux in a way, 'cause they used to play them blues....'' ( Carter W, Preservation Hall, 1991).
I'm not doubting Papa John Joseph at all, but as Bolden never recorded, I have no point of reference, other than the third person, to to make my own subjective assessment.
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