 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-10-25 20:05
I've been assigned by my new teacher to play the first two Etudes from the Rose 32. I picked them up and found them to be without tempo markings.
Would you folks please tell me what tempi are appropriate for them.
Number 1 is marked Andante Cantible. I have the feeling that it should be counted in 1/8 ~ 100.
Number two is marked Allego and is in 3/8. Most of it seems to make sense played in 1 as sextolets, but there are some stinkers in there that call for dotted 1/16s follwed by a 1/32. Those are easier for me to get past if I count in 3 --or is that one of the points of the exercise --to count them in 1 and not blow the rythm?
Thanks
Bob Phillips
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-25 20:44
The Hite edition of the Rose 32 suggests the tempo for #1 should be quarter note = 60, and the tempo for #2 should be dotted quarter = 56.
The odd numbered Rose Etudes (#1, #3, #5, #7 ...etc) are the "expressive" exercises and the even numbered etudes (#2, #4, #6, etc...) are the "technical" exercises, thus it is good to work on an odd one and an even one each week.
That being said, I like Etude #1 at about mm=60, but no faster than mm=66 to still bring out the cantabile style.
Etude #2 works fine at mm=56, but for a challenge you can take it all the way up to mm=76 ...GBK
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Author: BG ★2017
Date: 2005-10-25 22:47
One other idea is to purchase the recent piano accompaniment cd that was composed and played by pianist John Walker for the Rose 32 Etudes. It usually sells for just under $20 and can probably be ordered through most music stores, as well as some of this site's sponsors. It is well prepared with explanations of tempi, repeats, fermatas, etc. I think it makes it a lot more fun to practice these once you have them individually prepared. I also find that it tends to make one play the etudes more musically, rather than just technically!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-25 23:07
Rose "Music-minus-one!" I have to have that right now !!!
GBK is on the mark with tempo (I started to think I lost it, mentally coming up with 60/min on both humming to myself).
As for dotted 16ths - that's a good spot for "hu-tahs" or start practicing "ka-tahs." Seems like a lot of folks are doing the double tongue these days.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Scotti
Date: 2005-10-26 05:05
This is just my opinion, but the Jim Walker CD is serving to kill the Rose Etudes and their original intent and effectiveness. One of the hardest things to do with those studies is to play them musically without any kind of accompaniment. Having underlying chords makes it too obvious, too easy to play these etudes with any level of excitement for the listener. In this way, I believe it limits the student.
What's worse is the limitations on tempo and rubato that are the inevitable result. Picking tempi that "work" is part of the challenge and learning process inherent in these studies.... except when a CD is churning out the "accompaniment."
I agree that the CD is a quick fix to make the music more enjoyable for students, but force-feeding them answers to the questions posed by these studies reduces them to just another set of etudes.
I have used them with students, but never again. Once the CD is off, it's clear they don't play them any more musically.
Bob, my suggestion for you would be to play the slow etudes at a tempo that allows you to play expressively, but doesn't seem to slow and boring. Play the fast ones as quickly as you can, but ONLY if you can play them with ease and it doesn't sound frantic. I think you will find that you'll reach similar conclusions on tempo as the ones given here. But don't just listen to people on the internet and just take their tempo.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-26 10:32
Hey Scotti,
I'm aghast!! I nearly cried !!!! While I agree on the tempo argument against "play alongs," what we all wind up doing (if we're lucky) is playing along with someone else or some others. The clarinet is a ONE NOTE AT A TIME instrument. We should all get some sort of medal for putting in as much time as we do on an axe that gives you no idea what chord your playing at any given time (particularly modern music).
When I initially started the Rose 32 (that was my first Rose by the way, not the 40) I hated every note. What I would have given for an accompaniment back then!! Perhaps we should both look at this with fresh minds. I can admit to maybe overstating my case, and perhaps the other side of the argument just might want present students to go through EVERYTHING we did.
Play along......but not too much (?).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-10-26 15:58
Just an "oh, by the way":
I've found that playing along with CDs is good for me. I have a benchmark performance of the Mozart Trio in Eb, KV 498 (Kegelstaadt) with Sabine Meyer that helped me greatly learning some of the subtlties of the piece.
Also, to my great reliev, I have a wonderful, if somewhat stilted, playing of the Weber Grand Duo and his Variations --both for piano and clarinet. These are moderated in tempo --so that I can keep up.
I also play along with a Puccini aria recording.
What I do is to clear the house and turn the volume way up. Since I'm doubling a clarinet part, I know I'm good when the recorded clarinet dissapears. If I'm off in pitch or timing, I can hear the "other guy." When my intonation doesn't match the recorded clarinet, I have to tune up.
NOW,
the pianist in our trio doesn't believe in listening to new music before learning to perform it. She has a MA in performance and has a whole base of knowledge on interpretation --by period, composer, ... She utters things like, "take a hair," this is "Mozart, not Hayden!" She plays beautifully, but can make life difficult for an "advancing" clarinet student. For example, the first movement of the Kegelstaat is in 6/8. I learned it (with Sabine's unwitting help) to play it in 6. Pianist wants it in 2! Ouch, makes the written-out grupettos difficult for me. Second movement, a Minuet, wants to be in 3, she likes it in 1. I'm always caught out on the subtle entrances.
The Puccini doubling exercise is deadly. The recorded duo must have spent the entire recording session winking at each other. Their rubato is perfect. When I join in, it takes real focus to track the ritards, fermatas. Still, its good drill --particularly for tone and intonation. I find it impossible to play with the tempo changes of the piano accompaniment when the clarinet player is not there to help me out.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-10-26 21:25
I'm doing Rose #2 right now for All-State tryouts and I have the Hite French School book which says dotted quarter=56. I like to play this etude in 3, giving the eighth note the beat. I personally like the sound of this etude at about eighth note=184-192. I think it shows spirit, yet charm at this tempo. If you are looking for it to be more technically challenging, go with what GBK said and try to go up to 76!
By the way just for fun: If you have played #2 a billion times and are trying to spice it up, try changing the meter to 6/8. I almost have it perfected in 6/8 minus those pesky 32's! Also try tonguing and even double tonguing every note at high speeds for some interesting challenges!
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